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Launch HN: Theneo (YC W22) – Generate Stripe-Style API Docs
154 points by arobakid on March 18, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 76 comments
Hi HN, we are Ana and Maria, co-founders of Theneo, an AI tool that generates Stripe-like API docs (https://theneo.io/). Our ML models take care of tedious manual work in generating and publishing API docs, making them much easier to produce—less technically demanding for writers, and less writing-intensive for developers. Here's a demo video: https://www.loom.com/share/792fc6008a914d068ff8b34994fbc467.

I’ve been working with APIs for the past seven years, and the documentation process has been consistently the most painful. Nobody wants to have to do it, it’s filled with gruntwork and repetition, and takes a ton of time. Developers are not technical writers and documenting is never their priority, let alone making docs look nice. But for the reader—often the very same developers, when they’re consuming others’ work—it makes such a difference. How many times have you just looked at the API doc and decided “nope not going to integrate”? That was the case for me and my team many times. Developer communities often complain that even the most well-known companies’ public API docs are incomprehensible, and internal API docs are neglected even more.

The gruntwork and repetition are clues that there’s room for software to do a lot of this work, and particularly for ML models to help produce the content.

We want to allow anyone to create great docs without having a whole team of writers and designers, so we researched what makes Stripe, Square, and a few other API docs so great. First, it was definitely the content. Second, it was the user-friendly interface: layout, colors, scrolls, how easy it was to find information and give feedback. We talked to developers and technical writers to understand their pain points. Then we took all that research along with Maria’s experience as an ML Engineer at Microsoft, Deepmind, Google, and Facebook to come up with Theneo, a Technical Writer AI Assistant.

Theneo is like having a technical writer next to you. You upload your API collection (JSON, YAML, etc.). Our models automatically load and analyze API requests, methods, endpoints, request body, parameters, etc., then run some quality checks (e.g. for grammar errors) and give you content suggestions for the section names and descriptions.

API docs generated by Theneo are user-friendly, beautiful and interactive. we automatically generate all of your API requests in multiple languages and make it interactive for the reader. Here is an example: https://app.theneo.io/demo/theneo

For internal API docs, we created several integrations that make it easy to create and maintain API documentation: Postman Integration - you can pull all of your collections and use them in Theneo; Github Actions - you can define how and when you want API docs to be updated automatically (https://github.com/marketplace/actions/theneo-api-documentat... Visual Studio Code (coming soon) - by the end of this month you will be able to create and preview your API documentation right in your IDE. We do not use your private API docs for ML training.

You can see a quick overview of how our setup works here: https://www.loom.com/share/792fc6008a914d068ff8b34994fbc467

We are coming up with a lot of new integrations and features to make it easy for developers to generate and maintain internal or public-facing API docs. We would love to hear from you, what you are currently using, what you love or don’t love about those solutions, what stops you from having high-quality docs for your APIs, and anything else you’d like to share!




Could you add a way for people to test the product without paying you anything or providing you with any details? A section in your website where I can paste some API declaration I have laying around, and can see the docs you'll generate for me?

I really need a quick way to test whether this holds any water, and I don't want to provide you with my details to do it. If it doesn't work for my simple example, it won't work for my larger project - and I don't want to waste that time to begin with.

The best way to beat skepticism is to let people try the tech out and see for themselves that it actually works. There's too much "hotdog/not hotdog" tech in this space already.

Edit: I see there's a tiny "try free" button hiding at the bottom of the page. After clicking that, you're asked to provide your personal details. Then you're redirected to a page where you're suddenly asked to pay 20$ and sign-up with your credit card. This is pure nonsense. Enough with these dark patterns already.


Thanks for the feedback, and I understand your concern. We are working on building a preview and editor version that users can play around with without having to register. It is in development phase, but for now you can reach out to us, share your public api collection or sample one, we can quickly generate it for you and show you a final version. Here is one of the sample API doc for reference https://app.theneo.io/demo/ml


To follow up on the try free button, we have a free 7 day trial, you should not be asked to pay $20, its a 7 day trial which you can cancel anytime. If you were asked to pay $20 right away please share with out support. Thanks


This is unnecessary friction in attracting users. You should find a way to let people signup without a credit card.


That's an expensive feature request.

The friction is there because that's the cheapest/fastest way to go live.

It is a leaky funnel, but most early products have leaky funnels.

You might also consider working on softening your tone.

Instead of "you should" which might be appropriate in a code review, consider using the language "have you considered."


Users? Possibly. Customers? Probably not.


Users is most likely going to be internal developers that would recommend to their product team that this is the most effective way to get a documentation page live. If they can't test it without fuss, they probably won't


Hi all, Many companies use the same subscription model and barely any has a trial with no credentials asked. This is a separate topic that's not related to what we do at Theneo.

Requiring our users to create accounts allows us to better serve our customers and to limit abusive actions should we need to. There are a whole set of security issues to consider. It's not even a "trial" if there's not even an account. We simply chose to prioritize the customers' needs who care about the product enough that they would not mind signing up for a free trial.

As devs ourselves, we would be happy to give back to community. Maybe by open sourcing some parts in the future, when we have more free time.


You can easily generate API docs for free with Redoc (https://redocly.github.io/redoc/) , SwaggerUI (https://swagger.io/tools/swagger-ui/) and many more so I am on the other side and think the the pricing is too high, especially the premium to use a custom domain.

What is the advantage of using your product to what is available for free except some CSS tweaks?


Hi there, thanks for the feedback. At Theneo we are working on automating the entire process of documenting and maintaining the API doc. Our goal is that developers can easily have the entire doc (including the content) ready. Right now those mentioned companies are giving a tool to build the API doc but developers still need to write the spec, come up with the content and text needed to make the API Doc readable. Basically at Theneo we are working on taking care of that as well.


hi naiv, Ana have explained what is the additional value we offer. As for the pricing being high:

Redocly's basic plan starts at $69/month billed annually - $828 per year, professional $300/month billed annually, and enterprise not listed.

Readme's startup plan starts at $99 per month per project and enterprise is $2000 per month/project, etc.

Theneo's basic plan starts at $20 per month and enterprise plan is $100 per month. There are obviously many other differences in these plans so feel free to go check them out yourself and compare pricing.


Do you support GraphQL APIs?

ETA: It would be helpful if you would have an example of the APIs where you highlight what was manually done by a person and what was automatically generated. The example docs (https://app.theneo.io/demo/theneo/theneo_api_reference) look like any API documentation system, it isn't clear what's your product's added value.

Edit 2: I just watched Ana's video from your post here, that's not on your homepage. It is 10x better than your homepage at explaining what you do :) I'm sold.


Hey there, yes we support GraphQL, though this week we experienced a bug with importing and we are working on resolving it.

So happy that you watched the video, we need to improve our landing page for sure, we've been so concentrated on the product itself, we forgot about the landing page :D


Hey, I'm possibly a target customer (not sure) and I don't know what stripe-style means.

Just a single data point, but perhaps reconsider how you describe it.

We develop an open source observability and automation platform for Kubernetes and our docs are at https://docs.robusta.dev/master/

Key questions for me:

* Can we easily migrate from Sphinx and RST?

* What do the docs look like?

* Can we make documenting non rest APIs more interactive? (E.g our yaml automations)


Hi nyellin, Here is our sample doc: https://app.theneo.io/demo/theneo Thanks for watching the video!


There's a video? I just meant reading the homepage and looking at the example docs!

Regardless, looks cool. Thanks


Oh here is the link: https://www.loom.com/share/792fc6008a914d068ff8b34994fbc467

thanks, means a lot!


Ah just sat the demo. Cool


Do you support on-premise deployments? We're desperately searching for a tool which we can deploy at our internal servers that takes care about everything without connecting to the internet, cause every cloud operator is a no-go for our usecases / our sector. Unfortunately the majority of tools that do more than displaying an API (swagger, redoc, etc.) is always 3rd-party hosted / SaaS.

Maybe someone else is also aware of any tooling we might try to streamline our api doc experience more. The cost are no issue for us, but on-prem + api doc seems to be an rather rare field.


Theneo is beginning for something big and game-changing. I'm less interested in what it can do right now, but what its full-fledged version will be capable of.

API documentation has always been a hassle, no matter which tool or service I've tried they always tried to solve the small, isolated issue, instead of an end-to-end solution.

Theneo's promise to use ML to automate the most painful steps of a technical document is refreshing and exciting. I wish you the best of luck and hope this is a beginning of a new platform of a full-stack solution instead of an ad-hoc one.


Congrats on the launch. I often use specialized libraries that rely on hardware and constantly changing based on some development of both hardware or software. What is really frustrating is using code and then discover after weeks later it was deprecated, and the library developers didn't bother to update the community about it. Having auto-feature like flagging an API as deprecated while coding say in visual studio would be of great help. Can your tool help with that?

thanks!


Your pricing seems way too low (in my opinion). Creating API docs is not very common, so your customers might not be that many. So you need to be more aggressive on pricing to stay sustainable. But I could be totally wrong.

Also, on an unrelated side note, SEO seems very important here (for public facing API docs), so I'd put some emphasis on that as well. Good search mechanisms are also of great help in API docs. So I'd try to knock that out of the park as well.


Hi Hakeemmidan, thanks so much for the feedback! Compared to the price of other tools in this space and/or price of a technical writer our price is definitely a lot lower. Besides creating the doc, we also offer user analytics and make it easy to auto-update etc, so we provide value in staying our platform with the monthly subscription. We also share the opinion that a lot of APIs currently are undocumented due to tools being tedious, and we want to change that.


> Your pricing seems way too low (in my opinion). Creating API docs is not very common, so your customers might not be that many.

Inclined to disagree on this one. I feel like creating API docs is uncommon largely because the tools are bad (and what tools do exist tend to be expensive). I think success for this kind of company might involve creating a market for documentation by lowering the barrier to entry.


Thanks for your feedback. We are still experimenting with the pricing and what would make sense to our users. Regarding SEO, I 100% agree with you. Next week we are releasing a feature that enables companies to customize the URLs, optimize API doc SEO


Best of luck! ( ^__^ )/*


Headsup: The link to Github Action does not work.

The difficult part for me is maintaining the docs over time. I can generate 80% of what theneo does automatically in swagger style. The remaining 20% (manual editing, what your platform offers) is the missing part with my current solution, yet I cannot see how theneo solves updating most of the doc and placing back the manual edits.


Hi milani, not sure I understood your question completely. For maintaining published documentation we offer: 1) User analytics & feedback 2) if you integrate with Github we allow auto-updates 3) Automatically send notifications about the update

Does this answer you question? Feel free to contact us through intercom if you want to go more into details as well.


What you mean when you say "I cannot see how theneo solves updating most of the doc and placing back the manual edits."?


Congrats! I'm just enjoying Theneo. Now I can use my API doc screenshot as wallpaper to my phone ;d Keep going! <3.14159


he he thanks, so happy to hear that you like your API doc.


thanks so much @dshain!


Do you own the url theneo.com? I noticed the documentation for the demo [0] uses this url, but the url doesn't redirect to your site.

[0] - https://app.theneo.io/demo/theneo/theneo_api_reference


Hey @adamheam, could you please let us know where you see that? you can send us feedback through intercom.


I've been looking for something like this, but it seems to be missing a crucial feature: automatic SDK generation. Writing and maintaining SDKs is a lot of work for a small team. Great documentation is one part of a good developer experience, the other one is creating easy-to-try SDKs. Is this on the roadmap?


Hi there, thanks for your feedback. At this stage we are concentrating on automating and improving the quality of the API docs, but we are planning later to expand to SDKs as well.


I've been looking for a tool like this for the last month. I was going to use Redoc.ly but the interface is unintuitive to the point of being unusable. So I signed up for Theneo immediately...

Unfortunately whenever I import my Open-API spec to Theneo I get a success message, but it never becomes a usable collection.

Can you help me out?


Hi there, so sorry to hear about the OpenApi spec issue. Please message us on intercom and we will have a look at it right away.


Congrats on the launch, we're currently using https://stoplight.io/ which seems to be a bit more feature-complete but lacks the "assistant" bit I feel your team is focusing on more.


Thanks thiscatis, we would be happy to consider suggestions for new features.


I like what you're doing but, as your target customer, to be honest, your docs don't look very beautiful, despite that being your selling point!

Also, I'm not sure what the ML does here, is it like input open Api model -> output doc?. I'm sure you have to still add information manually.

Congrats on the launch!


Thanks for the feedback, here is one of the sample API docs https://app.theneo.io/demo/ml

We would love to hear your feedback and see how we can improve the published API doc and make it more beautiful

Regarding the ML, what we have is a technical writer AI assistant, that analyzes the API collections, gives suggestions, and the goal is that in just a few clicks to have the entire API doc ready.


>We would love to hear your feedback and see how we can improve the published API doc and make it more beautiful

The words are wrapping across lines in the link you gave. "asc is ascending and sorts from a to z." Looks like:

asc is ascending and sort

s from a to z.


Hey wizwit999,

> is it like input open Api model -> output doc?

Yes. Our ML pipeline analyzes the input, suggests content for the doc, and analyzes the quality of the content i.e. how intelligible is the content in your doc. It is up to you if you want to include the suggested content in your API doc. Feel free to schedule a demo call if you are more interested in details.


Congrats on the launch. Interested

Our docs are at developers.terminal49.com

- I'd like to host the docs on our /api/docs instead of subdomain

- how good is your SEO?

- based on how we want host (see 1) how does deep linking work?

- how customizable is the design?

Akshay at terminal49.com


Thanks for the interest!

- we have a feature for business subscribers to customize and optimize the SEO completely. That includes customizing the urls, deep linking, etc

- We also offer custom branding

- you can connect to your domain

In terms of hosting at this stage that option is available for the enterprise subscribers. If you are planning to use our enterprise subscription reach out to us - theneo.io/contact or book a demo.


Pricing this by user seems a bit weird. If you are going to do usage based pricing shouldn’t you price by size of the API?

I dunno, my API stays the same, but because we have 25 employees instead of 5 we pay a 5x premium?


Thanks for your feedback. We are still exploring the optimal pricing model for our users. For now, we have used similar models to what our users used in Postman, Swagger. Having said that feel free to reach out to us and we can help with the onboarding process and set up the pricing structure that would make sense for your team.


Hi Aeolun, We only charge per editors not by viewers - You would need to pay for the users that are actually editing the doc, we allow you to add users on your docs with just viewing rights for free.


Congrats on the launch! I've only used tools like SwaggerUI before and it was tedious to write and maintain documentation, so very keen to be trying out Theneo!


Do you guys plan on any more integrations besides postman? Migrating documentation is little challenging and streamlining this would be helpful.


Hi there, very soon we will be releasing the Visual Studio Code extension followed by other IDE extensions. We already have Github actions but are planning to expand more (scanning the entire repo etc) and add Gitlab integration as well. If you have anything else in mind please share it with us and our team will consider it.


Damn these docs are gorgeous. Is there a free plan I can play around with? Would love to import some docs on this platform


Thank you, happy to hear you like the published version. We have a free 7 day trial, feel free to get started with that. Let us know how your experience goes and if needed we can expand your trial period.


I love the product. And I have listened to the founders on several Georgian podcasts. They are super inspiring!


Thanks so much, it means a lot to us that you follow our journey!


We are fans of the clean docs experience this produces. Works great with Postman.


Happy to hear, we also launched Github integration, would love to hear your feedback.


Hi samtuke, we are glad to hear postman integration was useful for you!


Way to go! Excited to see this tool going on scale for thousands of developers!


The demo page is just blank


Almost the same for me using Brave, but the website pops in after ~30 seconds.


Thanks for the heads up!


Great product and great customer service, Theneo 1 <3.


Really nice product! Documentation in a new level!


Do you happen to be hiring for customer support?


Hi there, we do not but feel free to send us an email and we will keep it mind.


Congratulations! Great work.


Congrats!


love the product, highly recommend


Thanks, happy to see you love the product ^_^


How does this compare to https://readme.io?

Seems like a less developed version of it?


We are definitely a lot younger than Readme, no denying that ;) We also are approaching the docs with different intent. @gkoberger outlined here their goals. We certainly focus on making the documenting process as easy as possible. You can spend minimal time and still generate very high-quality documentation. So you have no excuse not to document ;)


Hey! ReadMe founder here. I'm always excited to have other companies working on docs :)

I haven't met Ana and Maria yet (hopefully will!), but it does seem like we both agree documentation is incredibly important for APIs. Based on what I've seen, ReadMe thinks about things a bit differently. Our goal isn't to just display all the info about your API, but rather make your API easy to use, debug, etc. Our docs are interactive, know things about your users, etc. We want the docs to be the full UI/UX for your API.

So, tl;dr = similar problem, and hopefully you check us both out :)

(Also, $170k later, we're ReadMe.com instead of .io these days!)


Hey @gkoberger,

> I haven't met Ana and Maria yet (hopefully will!)

- We will take you up on this :)

> Also, $170k later, we're ReadMe.com these days

- Congrats!


slightly annoyed you didn't do read.me




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