Yep, because developer might not know what ops needs in terms of traceability, logs and so on, to be able to run their code in production without having to wake them up at 2AM. Similarly Ops knows a lot about what can be done with existing infrastructure, or off the shelf components, which can save a huge amount of work, while providing a more stable system.
I do mostly operations now, and I'm lucky enough to work with really talents developers, who care to listen to input, before writing 5000 lines of code. I also work with customers, who have their own developers, with their own weird ideas about the world.
The biggest problem I see right now, except for occasions cowboy pretending to be a professional developer, is developer picking technologies without understanding it. We work with customer who picked technologies because they're interesting, not because it's what they need. When performance is terrible it becomes and operations issue and being told "Kafka is not actually a database and should be used as one" often isn't the answer they want. Or try telling a developer that the code he worked on for three months can be done by the existing load balancer in a few hours or that the ORM is actually writing terrible queries.
DevOps team, as in: "We use the shared knowledge of both parties" is fantastic, but operations is frequently an afterthought and not involved in the design fase.
If we're to take "DevOps" as developers doing operation, I'd prefer that we do the opposite and let operations do development. I think we'd get better results.
Yep, because developer might not know what ops needs in terms of traceability, logs and so on, to be able to run their code in production without having to wake them up at 2AM. Similarly Ops knows a lot about what can be done with existing infrastructure, or off the shelf components, which can save a huge amount of work, while providing a more stable system.
I do mostly operations now, and I'm lucky enough to work with really talents developers, who care to listen to input, before writing 5000 lines of code. I also work with customers, who have their own developers, with their own weird ideas about the world.
The biggest problem I see right now, except for occasions cowboy pretending to be a professional developer, is developer picking technologies without understanding it. We work with customer who picked technologies because they're interesting, not because it's what they need. When performance is terrible it becomes and operations issue and being told "Kafka is not actually a database and should be used as one" often isn't the answer they want. Or try telling a developer that the code he worked on for three months can be done by the existing load balancer in a few hours or that the ORM is actually writing terrible queries.
DevOps team, as in: "We use the shared knowledge of both parties" is fantastic, but operations is frequently an afterthought and not involved in the design fase.
If we're to take "DevOps" as developers doing operation, I'd prefer that we do the opposite and let operations do development. I think we'd get better results.