> "How much repetitive and empty of creativity most programming tasks are."
I've used Copilot for the past couple of weeks and haven't found this to be the case.
Most of the time Copilot doesn't really understand what I'm doing or isn't useful because I'm doing exploratory programming. For the trivial stuff, I've found that it's easier to write it myself because then I don't have to correct what an AI is thinking so it fits into the project or compiles.
I'm a big fan of Copilot. I think the outrage is overblown. But it hasn't been useful enough to prove that most programming is "devoid of creativity and repetitive".
> "Every task Copilot can do for you is a task that should NOT be part of modern programming, and a signal that our industry is broken and that programmers are the new blue collars."
I really don't get this point. The point of programming and explicitness is control over what gets run.
Are you sick of writing API calls to a weather service? Use no-code or a library. Are you sick of writing an algorithm for X? Find a library for it, there's likely tons, and if there isn't, that's creative work for ya. Dislike setting up a React project? Use a boilerplate. Sick of plumbing things together? Try no-code.
Feeling like nothing you're making is creative? Go write your own OS or something.
This thread reeks of the whole elitist "programming used to be real work back then" attitude.
Here here. If you want to make art, make art. For most devs, you’re gluing together APIs or existing libraries, and Copilot will make this work easier over time.
Just as welding can be done for art or hobbyist endeavors, there’s a whole lot of welding that is boring, repetitive, and/or devoid of anything fun or creative. But that work still needs to be done. I’m not a software engineer, but if you can pull junior and mid level engineers up using software and machine learning, why wouldn’t you? Automate All The Things.
Im a principal at AWS and hobbyist metal worker. Your welding analogy holds in more ways as well. The hobbyist or art welder simply may be able to make something thats attractive or satisfies their own needs. But it absolutely wont be suitable for production, critical use, or efficient manufacturing. Conversely your journeyman welder has spent thousands of hours drawing beads in all sorts of materials and positions. They also have the skill to recognize what kind of setup and technique to apply to solve the jobs requirements.
Following that line…
> programmers are the new blue collars.
Yes, very much. If “you” want to make a living creating art then godspeed, and I may even appreciate your creation. But solving problems through efficient production takes a very different skillset, tools, and organization. And companies employ developers to solve problems, not create art.
And then there's the whole realm of robotic welding where the quality and consistency of the welds in all sorts of cockeyed positions and otherwise extremely unsafe working conditions is at the level of the best weld a top 1% journeyman welder is capable of on their best day. Ever since I began writing Focal in jr high school I've been looking for a better way to "tell the robot" what I want it to do.
Then again, I'm perfectly happy with the welding work some fresh grad from trade school did for the railing around my deck.
I don't understand why you're getting downvoted, because this was exactly my point. Some folks just want to make money off software, not reach enlightenment with every line.
> Most of the time Copilot doesn't really understand what I'm doing or isn't useful because I'm doing exploratory programming. For the trivial stuff, I've found that it's easier to write it myself because then I don't have to correct what an AI is thinking so it fits into the project or compiles.
> I'm a big fan of Copilot.
Wow, big whiplash reading that. Your review makes it sound useless and obtrusive. Are you a masochist, or does it have some redeeming qualities you neglected to mention?
It's still early stage. I've saved a lot of keystrokes using Tabnine, which is like single-line Copilot, so I'm pretty optimistic about Copilot in the long term.
"How much repetitive and empty of creativity most of life tasks are."
The era of rapid technological progress has led to the fetishization of novelty. It is new, therefore it must be much better that what came before. That era has ended somewhere in the late XX century, possibly in the '70s. The technological landscape hasn't changed much since with the notable exception of mobile computing. Time to grow up.
Edit. Something that blows my mind. From 1900 by 1970 (70 years) the world moved from flight being a remote dream to Boeing 747. From 1970 to 2020 (next 50 years), hundreds of 747 are still on active duty, and the successor 777 is merely marginally more efficient.
Pretty bad take. CoPilot is not sufficient to complete any realistically scoped task. I do not know how you go from CoPilot can successfully guess some snippets of code you might want to use to "programming is now blue collar work"
I've used Copilot for the past couple of weeks and haven't found this to be the case.
Most of the time Copilot doesn't really understand what I'm doing or isn't useful because I'm doing exploratory programming. For the trivial stuff, I've found that it's easier to write it myself because then I don't have to correct what an AI is thinking so it fits into the project or compiles.
I'm a big fan of Copilot. I think the outrage is overblown. But it hasn't been useful enough to prove that most programming is "devoid of creativity and repetitive".
> "Every task Copilot can do for you is a task that should NOT be part of modern programming, and a signal that our industry is broken and that programmers are the new blue collars."
I really don't get this point. The point of programming and explicitness is control over what gets run.
Are you sick of writing API calls to a weather service? Use no-code or a library. Are you sick of writing an algorithm for X? Find a library for it, there's likely tons, and if there isn't, that's creative work for ya. Dislike setting up a React project? Use a boilerplate. Sick of plumbing things together? Try no-code.
Feeling like nothing you're making is creative? Go write your own OS or something.
This thread reeks of the whole elitist "programming used to be real work back then" attitude.