Interesting -- "immiseration", as far as I know, originates with 19th century socialist theory regarding rising misery among the working class due to relatively lower wages as capitalists accumulate wealth and subjugate them[0,1]. Granted, the term is obscure and jargonesque enough that in modern use it does generally mean, specifically, "impoverishment". Which in other words could be called misery from economic causes.
Please, allow at least a little breadth in the scope of rhetorical wordplay: immiseration is fundamentally about misery, and the links I gave are examples of the broad misery felt by the average American. That misery is not sourceless: my entire point is that that misery is due to the increasing relative impoverishment of the average person.
On the surface it is just misery, but when you think about the causes, it is apparent that it is immiseration, in the jargon sense: the people are poorer than they have ever been, and they are visibly angrier and more upset because of it.
The George Floyd protest and the Capitol Riot are each outpourings of rage, directed at "the system". One was directed at the ongoing and increasing seeming criminalization of simply being Black in America, and one was directed at what the people involved thought was an unfair and stolen election, designed to take from them what little they have. Different people, different plights, different ideas: same root cause.
Happy, wealthy, comfortable, safe people who believe a bright future is in store do not take to the streets, burn buildings down, and get into large scale fights with their local police force. They don't throw bricks through coffee shop windows, hang out in tear gas clouds, or crowd up during a pandemic.
Their willingness to do so, over clearly expressed feelings of hopelessness and loss of control or participation in the system, over a feeling that they are losing out overall, it's coming from a place of desperation. It is coming from a place of misery. You've got to be pretty miserable if you think fighting the cops sounds good.
I'm sorry that you see very little connection there. It may unfortunately be that you see very little overall, or that you're intentionally looking away.
Ignoring your gratuitous insults in the last paragraph...
> Happy, wealthy, comfortable, safe people who believe a bright future is in store do not take to the streets, burn buildings down, and get into large scale fights with their local police force. They don't throw bricks through coffee shop windows, hang out in tear gas clouds, or crowd up during a pandemic.
Yeah, see, they could be wealthy, and still not safe because of skin color. That's the point of the George Floyd protests. If you see people like yourself getting shot by police for reasons that seem absurd, over and over, you don't feel safe. You don't believe in a bright future. You aren't happy. And economics has very little to do with it.
27 unarmed black men were shot by police in the US 2020. Most liberals think the number is 1,000+, and a large portion think it's 10,000+ [1]. Maybe you should factor this in to your analysis?
I tried to be careful in how I worded what I said. If I were black (I'm not), and I saw news accounts over and over about police shooting blacks for what (at first report) seemed to be trivial reasons, I would not feel safe. The number doesn't have to be statistically significant; the reasons can be better than they appeared at first report. None of that matters. What matters is that the media is beating into my head that this is going on, so I think I'm not safe. Doesn't matter whether I am or not. If I think I am unsafe, everything I said in my post follows. (Including the main point - that this isn't about economics.)
We were never talking about policy, so I don't know why you bring that up. We were talking about the George Floyd protests, and whether it was caused by peoples' poverty.
One doesn't have to be black to feel unsafe. We also have to define the term unsafe. It depends on how often the issue is occurring and what that individual's risk tolerance is.
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be _gratuitous_, nor particularly insulting to you.
I wanted to acknowledge the possibility that our respective political beliefs, whatever they may be, might lead us to look for different types of issues in different places as root causes.
My own beliefs lead me to characterize choosing to believe that economic inequality is not integral to the Black experience in America as tantamount to wilfully ignoring a root component of the problems people face. If that belief is insulting to you, we may tragically be living in different worlds of experience, and might not ever have a meeting of the minds. That's what I was going for.
Despite that concern, from what you said, it seems like we might actually agree on a lot -- as you put it,
> If you see people like yourself getting shot by police for reasons that seem absurd, over and over, you don't feel safe. You don't believe in a bright future. You aren't happy.
That sounds spot on to me, and I absolutely agree that the fear of violence affects wealthy Black Americans too.
Regardless, the outpouring of rage from the community certainly transcended just the fear of violence from police. Violence is one particularly horrifying aspect of how the system hurts people, but people are being crushed all over, and people are mad about all of it.
Here is one quick example[1] of this being stated, sourced in one of the Wikipedia pages I originally linked (which explicitly lists "inequality and racism" as a cause of the George Floyd protests). This article is an interview with the Surgeon General of America, and says:
> The surgeon general pointed to Covid-19 disparities and other health care gaps among communities of color including maternal mortality rates and the opioid crisis, saying these issues and the frustration surfacing across the country are intermingled.
> “It's on the top of my mind as a black man, as a father, as a brother, as a son,” Adams said.
The brutality of the police is certainly the salient, focusing point of the protests, but the overall causes and broad outpouring are larger than that. The protestors have often called out the broad systemic aspects of racism, like healthcare access, home ownership rates, debt levels, access to quality education, and investment in communities of colour. Those sorts of things impact Black people's lives daily on scales far greater than police brutality, and they are economic issues at heart.
Police violence is uniquely horrific in its instances, and is the central igniting issue here, but the issues as a whole are much bigger than it alone.
Please, allow at least a little breadth in the scope of rhetorical wordplay: immiseration is fundamentally about misery, and the links I gave are examples of the broad misery felt by the average American. That misery is not sourceless: my entire point is that that misery is due to the increasing relative impoverishment of the average person.
On the surface it is just misery, but when you think about the causes, it is apparent that it is immiseration, in the jargon sense: the people are poorer than they have ever been, and they are visibly angrier and more upset because of it.
0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immiseration_thesis
1 - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Das_Kapital_Volume_One/Chapte...