Fine, then what issue do you have with my comment? Pressuring or rushing to inject people who have no statistical risk is just adding to the overall risk equation
And when I hear rumblings of vaccine passports and all this nonsense in the news and I see some people's general attitude towards Covid vaccination: you're either for it or you're a flat earthling neophyte.
At any rate, point I'm trying to make:
There's less than 3700 deaths for Under 34 year olds in the United States, from Covid19 [1].
And that number will go down with every year that passes from here on out, because a broader percentage of that demographic already has herd immunity. In fact, there's much more important health problems to focus on for those demographics. Suicide, heart disease, homicide, car accidents, liver disease, diabetes, etc.
Population under 34: 148M
Covid19 deaths under 34 in first year of existence, with no immunity in population: 3710
Flu & pneumonia deaths for pop under 34 in 2018 was 1857 [3].
Odds of dying of Covid19 under 34 in first year of its existence:
.0025%
Odds of long-term consequences from RNA therapy from AZ, J&J, or Pfizer treatment: ???
Unknown. It could increase your odds of having a stroke at in 10 years. No one knows. If it's causing blood clots, that's a distinct possibility.
- these are vaccines, they aren’t gene therapy (ie they aren’t changing cellular DNA)
- saying a portion of the population has herd immunity is non-sensical. Either there’s herd immunity (virus can’t spread bc everyone has antibodies) or there isn’t. It happens at specific thresholds of population exposure/antibody presence that varies based on the R of the virus. It was estimated at ~70% for the ‘original’ virus and with the UK/SA variants now looks to be north of 80%.
- even with exposure, there are case reports of reinfect ion which makes sense in the history of coronaviruses which aren’t considered to provide long term immunity (ie antibody titre falls off and may not provide immunity in some short term horizon, ie 18 months)
- therefore, return to normal relies on elimination of community spread, by herd immunity, which likely will require vaccination; which will hopefully provide longer term immunity than infection with the virus itself (not sure on the evidence on this)
I agree that population that has low statistical risk shouldn’t be pressured into vaccination, and I see the dangers in vaccine passports etc.
To another point you made, regarding long term risks and generally the history of misguided attempts by the medical community to do something that has severe deleterious longer term effects that were unforeseen: I am signicantly less concerned about the risk of ie long term stroke risk being raised in this population, because the emerging evidence points to a HITTs-like antibody mediated condition.
In Heparin induced thrombocytopaenia and thrombosis, removal of trigger removes long term risk and I would think that no further antibody triggering thrombosis should be produced after the acute period in those affected (and indeed in that very large fragment of the population who don’t develop CVTS or vaccine mediated thrombosis, which does seem confined to those who had vaccine via adenovirus vectors), then it should be a non-issue because the autoantibody was never produced in the first place and there are no memory cells there ready to pump it out again at antigen presentation.
Of course, I qualify this with its possible, and you’re free to dismiss my confidence, but we have a plausible mechanism that is relatively well understood so I think the risk of there being long term risks is very low
It's quite true that nobody knows the long-term consequences of these vaccines (which I don't think it is accurate to call gene therapies), but likewise you have no idea what the long-term consequences of COVID exposure are either - it's not a simple die/survive binary as some people have mild symptoms but develop chronic problems.
You obviously have strong feelings about this because you came into the thread with big broad claims, but you seem to be taking disagreement from others very personally.
>Fine, then what issue do you have with my comment?
It's pretty obvious if you read my comment. You said, "Stop violating people's human rights", and I said nobody's rights are being violated. Putting it to you as clearly as possible, your rights are not being violated until you are being strapped into a chair and having a vaccine forced into you, and that's simply not going to happen.
Some regions may adopt a "passport" system for the relative short-term but even then, you still do not have to get a vaccine if you don't want to. You just may have to wait a little bit longer than the vaccinated to get back to participating in certain things, but you would still be exercising your right to not get vaccinated.
It's as simple as that, and has nothing to do with the rambling that followed your question.
I meant the original comment where you levied a personal attack against me. I stated my opinion in earnest. I've been posting on HN for better part of a decade, and you levy a personal assault on me. At any rate, I want you to understand: it's perfectly ok, and perfectly acceptable for there to be people in the world who have different opinions than you, and that does not make them a troll.
The above was my rationalization, with sources that you probably didn't bother to read, for my original comment where you made the personal attack and assaulted my character. At any rate, this conversation is done. Stay healthy and stay free, my friend.
> I meant the original comment where you levied a personal attack against me.
I think you mean me. What I actually wrote was:
> Comment history on the topic of COVID is littered with trollish behavior and bonkers-bad reasoning fitting a pattern.
And I stand by that statement. You've had a long history of rolling out dubious arguments and posting inflammatory misinformation with a deliberate agenda to minimize COVID from the very beginning, the whole damn year. I have no idea why. Your comments on other topics seem reasonable and level-headed, but your COVID trolling is just off the charts. I wish you would just stop it. The world hasn't even processed the trauma of going through millions of deaths, we're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and we got you out here just making more noises again, with driveby doubt mongering. Every. damn. time. Only with one more zero on the death counts each time. Please, just can it, dude. What are you hoping to accomplish? Talking people out of getting vaccines? You're afraid that you need to take a vaccine, because it's just the sniffles, or something? Fuck off with that already, the world's been on fire for a year. People I know have died. Friends of mine have long COVID. Friends of mine are doctors, nurses, who have seen thousands die. Fuck off with your stupid "gene therapy" fear mongering, on exactly the wrong thing, in exactly the wrong direction, at exactly the wrong time.
It concerns me that you are so keen on citing data in your comments, yet you are unable to notice that my username is not the same username that called you a troll.
My first comment in this thread was where I told you that your rights were not being violated. My second comment was my clarification. This is my third. There have been no personal attacks directed toward you from me - if you feel differently, please highlight where you feel I attacked you.
And when I hear rumblings of vaccine passports and all this nonsense in the news and I see some people's general attitude towards Covid vaccination: you're either for it or you're a flat earthling neophyte.
At any rate, point I'm trying to make:
There's less than 3700 deaths for Under 34 year olds in the United States, from Covid19 [1].
And that number will go down with every year that passes from here on out, because a broader percentage of that demographic already has herd immunity. In fact, there's much more important health problems to focus on for those demographics. Suicide, heart disease, homicide, car accidents, liver disease, diabetes, etc.
Population under 34: 148M Covid19 deaths under 34 in first year of existence, with no immunity in population: 3710
Flu & pneumonia deaths for pop under 34 in 2018 was 1857 [3].
Odds of dying of Covid19 under 34 in first year of its existence: .0025%
Odds of long-term consequences from RNA therapy from AZ, J&J, or Pfizer treatment: ???
Unknown. It could increase your odds of having a stroke at in 10 years. No one knows. If it's causing blood clots, that's a distinct possibility.
[1] https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/c... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_dea...