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I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source

I don't know that anybody is saying that Google did anything specifically Good or Just or Noble or anything. The celebratory aspect is more based on all the Bad Things that would have happened in the future if this decision had come down in favor of Oracle.




What bad things would have happened? This ruling specifically says that it was fair use, not that APIs are copyrightable - which seems to be the buggy man. As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws.


Once you use someone's API, then they dictate where and when your program works, unless you rewrite your program to not use that API.

Given the countless and fundamental APIs that are typically used in any program, do you not think that is a Bad Thing?

Given that most programmers have assumed that to not be the case, it would be very bad for existing code at the very least.


Well, if you are looking at an API which’s license explicitly forbids copying, I would stay away from copying it. While this case do give a precedent, it is much more about this specific case being a fair use according to the supreme court, than on whether APIs itself are copyrightable.

Also, given most programmers’ assumptions, I would not base much on that alone :D But IANAL, so do ask one, to be safe.


>As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws.

This opinion doesn't say so.

"We shall assume, but purely for argument’s sake, that the entire Sun Java API falls within the definition of that which can be copy-righted. We shall ask instead whether Google’s use of part of that API was a “fair use."


It would be dumb to declare true the opponent’s case in the argument, wouldn’t it?


No, it is a sidestep. Even if the code is copyrightable, it doesn't matter. The majority decided it was better to make a case for fair use than for the uncopyrightability of APIs. That's all.


My understanding is that the original problem was that there is nothing in law that makes a difference between actual implementation code and API. Otherwise it would have been a trivial case.

And even in this, they rather go with the easier fair use claim that is case-by-case.


If Android Java was illegal, it seems likely that GNU, Wine, OpenStack, the Mastodon client API, LibreOffice Calc, ... this ruling is limited enough that some or all of those might still be illegal, but at least the open source clone of `windows.h` that winelib distributes is probably safe.


What bad things would have happened?

It would have become MUCH more dangerous to provide an alternate implementation of someone else's library or interface, which I believe would have have a profoundly negative effect on the entire software industry.

As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws.

Yes, but now there is a very strong precedent establishing the idea that copying those copyrighted API's is OK anyway (under Fair Use) under at least some circumstances. And based off the way the SCOTUS decision was worded, it strikes me (admittedly, IANAL) that the set of circumstances that are captured by this are pretty large.


IANAL, but it was always true that fair use made code exempt from copyright. Wine is alive specifically because of that.


This case would have changed that has the rolling differed.


That's literally the next sentence that you intentionally omitted.

And I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman like this is some good vs evil struggle.

Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them.

Their insanity continues regardless of the verdict after all, and there are plenty of otherwise reasonable takes ruined by their existence.


Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen.

I didn't say they were.

They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them.

The issue at hand is about copyright not patents.

And note that I'm not saying that nothing bad can, or will, ever happen again. I'm just saying that the consequences of this decision coming down the other way would have been Very Bad, which makes the current decision a Very Good Thing in general.


Are you familiar with Oracle's business practices? They are indeed evil.

Google started out with the stated intent to not be evil but now they're allowing that possibly and are making good progress.


> I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman

“Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower.”


That's exactly it, except here I would say someone stuck their hand in the lawnmower and got away with it.

But people were upset the lawnmower tried to take the hand at all




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