I’m asking as sincerely as I can, I wish no one harm or to lose their right to vote —
How do we have a higher mail in ballot rejection rate in non-pandemic times than we do in pandemic times?
And then follow up, if we assume incredible voter turnout, how do many of these first time mail in ballots follow the process so correctly that the ballot rejection rate is lower?
Were the standards altered? That’s fine with me. Just say it.
Can we see all the ballot signatures side by side with the rolls? I don’t think that’s too much to ask really — I mean it’s a part of the process (we already check voter rolls in state and local elections).
These questions could really begin a true discussion to build a shared world views. It’s what I imagine a forthright and true partner would do for someone with slight reservations... or at least I’d hope.
Shutting it down with Orwellian tactics rather than hard verifiable data is what feels a bit disingenuous that we are all on the same team.
> How do we have a higher mail in ballot rejection rate in non-pandemic times than we do in pandemic times?
Probably because the rejection rate is exaggerated in normal times because the population that relies on absentee voting in regular times is less able to produce consistent signatures.
Also probably because a lot more effort (both official government and outside organization) went into educating people on the rules for mail-in ballots.
> And then follow up, if we assume incredible voter turnout, how do many of these first time mail in ballots follow the process so correctly that the ballot rejection rate is lower?
That's not a follow-up, it's just rephrasing the exact same question with different and more extensive framing commentary.
Thanks for the honest and thoughtful response. I have not heard that explanation, and believe it does give a wider margin for possible rejection rates.
I will have to chew on that new point a bit longer — it feels plausible, and I’d like to find more publicly available data that indicates how much weight should be given to that explanation.
So, now I guess I’ll ask a true “follow up” (thanks for that too ha!)...
From my experience in local and state elections, I know of scenarios where 1-3 people are in charge of “getting out the vote” (read as: not election fraud, but people would look side eyed at it). It is not hard for me to see how those same 1-3 people get out 100 votes when not in a pandemic, because they have to get the actual person voter to the polls. However, in this pandemic mail in voting environment, those same 1-3 people can get 500-1,000 voters information to fill out a ballot request - then have those ballots sent to the small team HQ. once there, the “get out the votes” become certain for the sides you want and you can cover tracks with the ways one fills in the ballot. Also, the team can just copy the signature from the gathering ballot request step. There are approximately a team like this for every 50,000 voters, in off presidential races.
So long story (or background) short, if such a scenario did occur, do you feel that is representative of the people and a valid election?
Then please poke holes in my scenario above if you see something else I missed.
Also there is the reality that this election determined whether Trump would remain in office four more years. There was an optional witness signature block on my ballot and I called a lawyer to make sure I was filling it out right. Can't take any chances. Kids in cages.
The content of this article doesn't support the point it looks like you intended to make.
The scandal isn't that the facilities exist. It's in how they're now being used: to indefinitely detain _children_ who, unlike before, have been separated from their families. To make matters worse, many of these kids are being abused by their captors, and many were never been reunited with their family members.
> How do we have a higher mail in ballot rejection rate in non-pandemic times than we do in pandemic times?
I mean, here's an explanation for a specific case
> According to the nonprofit, nonpartisan organisation Ballotpedia, Georgia rejected 6.42% of mail-in ballots in total in the 2016 general election and 3.10% in total in the 2018 midterm (here). These totals include rejections because of signatures, but also include, for example, ballots received late or past deadlines, problems with return materials or a voter having already voted in person.
> It may be that Trump was referring to the 0.15% of ballots specifically rejected for "missing or non-matching signatures" when saying that ballots rejected in 2020 were "almost zero", but this percentage is consistent with past years. The higher percentage he mentions for past years is likely based off the total rejected ballots (here) which can not be compared with 2020, as this information is not available.
> The higher percentage he mentions for past years is likely based off the total rejected ballots (here) which can not be compared with 2020, as this information is not available.
This is also the same style of reasoning that helps people explain away the abnormally high voter turnout in WI. Please understand I mean no disrespect in this - I just think changing definitions to cure the abnormalities isn’t necessarily correct (and is frighteningly Orwellian in the bad way).
If I had ever turned out 90% of voters measured as (votes/total registered voters) I would have more money than Elon. The way these shocking statistics get diluted is by placating to people with no experience in the process. The goal is to make them feel better by offering an alternative (however misguided) representation, that will stop the line of questioning.
So when confronted with an extremely implausible voter turnout, people say the real turnout is votes/total eligible voters... which is very different than every other time
I’ve experienced voter turn out
> So when confronted with an extremely implausible voter turnout, people say the real turnout is votes/total eligible voters... which is very different than every other time I’ve experienced voter turn out
Not sure how whatever conjured view of voter turnout YOU have is relevant. You can go to https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/statistics/turnout
grab `Voter Turnout Partisan-NonPartisan Through August 2020.xlsx` and see that turnout percentage is computed as `number of votes cast` / `voting age population`.
Which puts Wisconsin turnout at 72.3% [1]
We were talking about ballot rejection, and you start going off about "shocking" voter turnout statistics because you had no retort to the rejection stuff. Either you have an axe to grind or you are a troll. Or maybe you're a masked free speech crusader. The hero we deserve. But I kind of doubt that.
> Not sure how whatever conjured view of voter turnout YOU have is relevant. You can go to https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/statistics/turnout grab `Voter Turnout Partisan-NonPartisan Through August 2020.xlsx` and see that turnout percentage is computed as `number of votes cast` / `voting age population`.
This is funny -- here's a single example from the WI.gov page to show how little care is given to cultivating and maintaining this data...
HINDI: 56184
County: ST. CROIX COUNTY
Municipality: VILLAGE OF SPRING VALLEY
Total Electors 2012: 4
Voting Age Estimate 2012: 6
Voter Turnout 2012: 66.67%
Total Electors 2016: 319
Voting Age Estimate 2016: 10
Voting Turnout 2016: 3190.00%
So I can find slivers that support wild claims too. I think the more productive discussion is just doing a side by side of signatures and rolls - not that hard, no real argument about it - and everyone can stop trying to dig for little things and becoming unbearably pedantic with each other.
How do we have a higher mail in ballot rejection rate in non-pandemic times than we do in pandemic times?
And then follow up, if we assume incredible voter turnout, how do many of these first time mail in ballots follow the process so correctly that the ballot rejection rate is lower?
Were the standards altered? That’s fine with me. Just say it.
Can we see all the ballot signatures side by side with the rolls? I don’t think that’s too much to ask really — I mean it’s a part of the process (we already check voter rolls in state and local elections).
These questions could really begin a true discussion to build a shared world views. It’s what I imagine a forthright and true partner would do for someone with slight reservations... or at least I’d hope.
Shutting it down with Orwellian tactics rather than hard verifiable data is what feels a bit disingenuous that we are all on the same team.