You’re correct but journalists need to do better. This article isn’t strong enough for publication, the editor made reasonable suggestions and frankly, it sounds like a tantrum.

The problem is that journalism as a gatekeeper is intended to buffer this by applying robust fact checking.

In the age of social media nobody waits for that and it becomes a race to publish, well, anything first. The filter is gone.

Greenwald has in his contract that he's not subject to editorial oversight. It's not a "tantrum" to expect TheIntercept to honor that.

> Greenwald has in his contract that he's not subject to editorial oversight

Really? Where can I inspect that contract? Clearly, the terms that allow him to publish elsewhere if TI doesn't want to publish his stuff that he claims exist seem at odds with the claim that there are terms that he is free to publish whatever he wants in TI without TI exercising editorial control.

I suspect that the story he is painting about the contract terms is misleading, as it makes no sense as presented.

> Really? Where can I inspect that contract?

What we have right now is Greenwald's word, which given that A) I can't think of a time he's published an outright falsehood, and B) the letter from the editor didn't deny any of the facts but instead just jumped to describing the process as Greenwald having a "tantrum", I'm inclined to believe at face value.

> Clearly, the terms that allow him to publish elsewhere if TI doesn't want to publish his stuff that he claims exist seem at odds with the claim that there are terms that he is free to publish whatever he wants in TI without TI exercising editorial control.

Or it's a clause that if they mutually agree that TI isn't the best forum for an article Greenwald has written, he's explicitly allowed to take it to another forum, in contrast to the normal staff writer contract provisions.

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Thanks for engaging with me friend - I promise to reply but this will take a bit of time. Unfortunately, I have to step out.

I promise to write a proper reply and don’t want you to take my silence as a sign of disrespect. It’s been fun engaging with you and I appreciate your brain - I’ll edit this comment when I get back.

Seriously thanks, this has been a lot of fun!! :)

Edit - Hey friends, meowface genuinely doesn’t deserve those downvoted. They are smart - I don’t agree with them, but they’ve made some strong points in excellent ways.

Everyone on every side is being downvoted (and then upvoted, and then downvoted, and then upvoted, and then downvoted some more...), it seems. I don't mind at all; it comes with the territory. Anyone entering into a fray like this knows what to expect. If someone strongly disagrees with me, I actually think they probably should downvote me.

First off friend, I appreciate you - both for taking the time to engage and teach, and also for how well you articulate your arguments. I realize that this entire thread has become polarized, but if you would like to continue this conversation, my email address is in my profile. I can't promise to agree with you, but I will treat you with the respect you're due and try to better understand your point of view.

As for the comments about downvotes, call me naive, but I yearn for a world where we comment when we disagree but reserve up and downvotes for statements about the quality of a comment. I don't agree with you, but I upvoted you because you made me think. Ultimately, that's what I really look for from Hacker News. I don't know everything, but I have my own unique experience. If I'm wrong, please correct me....:)

Incidentally, if you want to continue this engagement off site, let me tell you a bit about my perspective. I used to publish an indie magazine that ended up winning some awards. At one point, I was tasked with editing a submission by a high ranking gang member who wanted to write about why he doesn't like the police and why his gang is a better choice for kids. I had to tell a story to make advertising dollars and it was a hell of a story. But our magazine ran contrary to a municipal bylaw so I had to somewhat tone it all down. It was complicated and to this day, I believe that I failed the story. Anyways, I think I bring a slightly different perspective (as do you) and I would appreciate the opportunity to learn from you.