Also, when are people going to stop using satellite imaging as a proof of evidence? I mean, let's not forget the whole casus belli for the last Iraq war, where there was clear evidence of WMDs from all those satellite images right? I mean, what's so different from the satellite image there and also a random business park in the UK (besides the labels and tags of course, and I used to be imprisoned in one of those blocks for most of my day that some people would like to call an 'office'):
The Chinese people are great. The country is awesome but the current government is tyrannical. We know that millions died under Mao yet he is still praised. That alone is enough for me to distrust the CCP.
This sums up my feelings about it as well.
I have been to China. I know Tibetans with heartbreaking stories about the direct impacts of government tyranny.
>We know that millions died under Mao yet he is still praised
It's my understanding that Mao is held in good regard by his people for the communist revolution, which liberated China from colonial powers, their colonization by the West and the Japanese occupation being a deeply disturbing part of their history.
It is also my understanding that Mao is also considered by most to have been misguided, senile, and/or perhaps usurped by others (like the gang of four) for things like the great leap forward and the cultural revolution which happened later. He is not admired for these events.
But please, do know that there are many individuals outside the USA, who regularly roll their eyes and feel triggered when yet another article accuses China or Russia of yet another "anything".
Don't get me wrong, some of the accusations sure are very valid ones. But the political bias and (more often than not) cultural blindness/hypocrisy is usually rather obvious. At least for many, like me, from outside the USA. Personally, I would say that the most shocking part might be that not more Americans can see that about themselves. I guess that must be the power of systemic propaganda.
As long as Americans (or at least many) keep using exceptionalism (of any kind) as some sort of blanked excuse, to justify a heap of nastiness they pull around the globe, one might wonder what right Americans have to point at anyone but themselves.
This of course does in no way excuse whatever it is that countries like China and Russia do wrong. But finding any US-based non-political and/or otherwise unbiased assessment of anything happening in China, Russia or any other country that isn't "aligned" with the US, has become close to impossible these days.
So, having people push back and posting counter stories might be nothing more than a natural process, by ordinary people who just get irritated by all this. Of course you're free to suspect bias in that, or even a Chinese agent if you'd like. But the real cause for these responses might just be ordinary people who simply get sick of all the biased and politicized "awareness" articles floating around these day .. especially here at HN, which should not be a forum for international politics (outside tech topic) in the first place.
Sincerely, the obvious information warfare might be at least equally as bad as the things these kind of articles are supposed to inform us about. That not a larger part of the HN crowd appears to be aware of this aspect, is pretty darn shameful and awkward in its own right.
I agree with you and grew very weary of these threads. My love of the forum come first from the tech/randomness of this place. However been living outside of China in Europe for almost a decade and half I feel it is difficult to ignore these matters completely. It is still eye-opening to read the many balanced, logical and articulate users here. So that even the worst threads have some enlightenment in them.
There's a wide swath of the US that feels the same way in regards to foreign policy. From reading your comment, I'm not sure if that is clear to outsiders?
Depends a bit on the outsider, I think. Also to which extend they might be a product of their own country's propaganda.
To me it certainly is clear, even from people I personally know. However, I do think that it might be only of limited relevance. That is, if these reasonable people have virtually no chance to bring about any substantial change in whatever system or collective actually governs/controls the USA, then how much does it really matter?
That said, I do not want to sound too harsh on the USA, especially its individual citizens. The country is no doubt going through a rather precarious development. It essentially shows all the hallmarks of almost every empire before it, right when those were on the brink of their collapse.
While social media tycoons, and a host of even far more shady companies and agencies, certainly make the radicalization and politicization of practically everything far worse than necessary, with mostly cynical/selfish goals, it might be that they are mostly just riding an already unstoppable wave, that would be there with or without them stirring things up even more.
To me, they are no doubt criminal enterprises either way, but the USA might soon have far more pressing problems on their hands than going after such companies. Which might be what some of these companies actually count on. Let's hope it turns out to be misguided arrogance, cynicism and hubris on their part.
>That is, if these reasonable people have virtually no chance to bring about any substantial change in whatever system or collective actually governs/controls the USA, then how much does it really matter?
There's still room for optimism if you choose. The current administration is campaigning for re-election on a record of no new wars.
No one is beyond criticism and this rule goes doubly for politicians. I'll also add the disclaimer that I view politicians as a class of professional liars. However, the media climate in regards to the current administration should be viewed through the lens of this anti-war stance. The pro-war establishment has demonstrated its media influence as you mentioned above.
> Which is why I'm highlighting the account for pushing a 100% political agenda.
Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned.
My main purpose was to (hopefully) give some context and explanation of why some people might write responses like that.
I'm not sure though, if the intent of that account is to push a political agenda, rather than just feeling compelled to counter what appears (to this person) to be another political agenda.
If you'd read my responses, you will find that many of them are political in nature as well. However, that is not because I like to campaign for politics. Almost always it is because I notice a glaring (implied) political bias in something and feel a strong need to point out what is missing there.
Personally, I would rather discus technical aspects. But for many topics, it's usually other people who are far more qualified to do that. So I often stay silent on those.
Consequently, it can easily be construed that I have to be some political agent (or worse). But in actuality it's mostly the nature of the content here on HN (and how it changed over time) that has leads to these results.
That said, of course that account could have been made for purely political purposes. I really would not know.
Is that somehow a terrible thing for a patriotic Chinese person who doesn't believe the details of the stories being used to gin up animus against their country? It isn't like you've had to look far for anti-Chinese sentiment coming from the US government since right after WWII.
or, OP simply does not want their true identity to be labeled as "pro-China" and created this specific account given how toxic, biased and hostile HN comment section has become wrt "pro-China" sentiment, by people like yourself.
Counter the argument for what it is if you wish but going after OP's account history is not called for.
Calling out the very few Chinese people on English platforms defending their country as shills is even more chilling than China calling everybody who mentions things like this spies and dissidents. In the west, it's also racially coded. It's also against a lot of forums' rules, including this one. It's an excuse not to engage on the merits, but to blanket dismiss.
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.
You should look through the comments of people who are constantly anti-China with the same vigilance; I'm sure you'll find 100x as many. Also, astroturfing is when corporations create activist organizations, not when somebody has an opinion you don't like, or when somebody believes their own government.
"Waa waa, someone does not ascribe to my beliefs so they must be a paid troll!" Do you need a tissue mate?
The reason I don't make many comments is because 1, I am too lazy and 2, HN is pretty toxic in that if you write anything adversarial to HN's party line of anti-corporates, anti-police, anti-China or anti-something else, even when what's written is true, then you get downvoted into oblivion.
Also, this is a pretty terrible platform for discussions (tbh, I am not sure if there is one that is good for discussions). No notifications, no auto-refreshes, in all honesty if I really paid attention to the discussions here, I should probably be questioning my life.
https://factcheck.afp.com/no-not-video-chinese-soldier-beati...
Also, when are people going to stop using satellite imaging as a proof of evidence? I mean, let's not forget the whole casus belli for the last Iraq war, where there was clear evidence of WMDs from all those satellite images right? I mean, what's so different from the satellite image there and also a random business park in the UK (besides the labels and tags of course, and I used to be imprisoned in one of those blocks for most of my day that some people would like to call an 'office'):
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6220549,-1.2900712,1099m/dat...
There's quite a few good answers here on Quora which I reckon are worth a read about the situation:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-Uyghurs-doing-to-fight-back-a...