I recently saw a graph that shocked me. Basically the UKs per capita GDP has been constant since 2008 ! If you smooth out the ups and downs it’s just gone sideways.
The UK is a nation that is stagnating and this one two punch could be what pushes it into a decline.
Brexit has become something of a religious movement. Things will magically get better after brexit but first you need suffer for your past sins before you get to the promised land. It’s not at all clear how this will happen but the less possible it looks the stronger the faithful become.
People like me who try to dissuade people from Brexit try to paint a picture of doom and chaos. The UK will be “fine” but it will fall in the League of Nations to the influence of an Italy or a Spain and in the long term this can be hard to swallow for people used to the glories of empire.
This is also one of the most egregious cases of the older generation screwing over the futures of a younger generation by taking away huge opportunities from them. The enormity of this will take a decade to sink in. You’re going to see a lot of pissed off zoomers in 10 years who’ll work to reverse all of this anyway.
See, this is what annoys people about the anti-Brexit brigade.
There are two very important facts you're not giving people here. Firstly, yes, the UK has had stagnant GDP per capita since 2008. So has Germany, so has France. So has Switzerland, since 2010. Clearly, this is not a UK specific issue.
The exceptions? America and ... Ireland. That's tech companies. They are big enough to move per capita GDP by themselves.
The second rather important fact is that the UK is still a part of the EU today for all intents and purposes. It still has to pay and is still a part of all the systems. What you're saying is that as part of the EU the UK, and additionally other major European economies, have seen 12 years of economic stagnation.
You know what one of the top arguments for Brexit was? The EU is a stagnant economy, structurally so, and it's getting worse. If we leave we can be more dynamic and fix that problem.
hard to swallow for people used to the glories of empire.
This is such a bizarre, insulting and ridiculous talking point. Remainers bring it up repeatedly but I've never encountered someone who supports Brexit who talks about the British Empire. It doesn't happen. It's a fantasy.
Germany’s per capita GDP has also stagnated: Thats because you chose the date as 2010. I was comparing to the 2008 peak and in comparison UK has gone down but Germany is up. The UK does somewhat worse than the others.
Now on top of this stagnation Brexit will make it worse because you will lose the vast majority of your trading advantages. There’s no magical resurgence that’s going to happen.
As for empire nostalgia as someone who moved from a colony it’s actually quite evident in the politics here. That there is some magic sauce in this tiny island which will allow it to somehow return to glory all by itself.
A poll by YouGov showed that 27 % of Britons want Britain to still have an empire. Closely followed by Netherlands at 26 % and France at 17 %. So these people exist. They are not a fantasy and there’s polling data to show it.
My point wasn’t that they vote for brexit because of the empire. But it feeds into a sense of exceptionalism and megalomania that goes into decisions like Brexit which the vast majority of international observers of the situation agree is a very foolish decision.
It’s just like voting for Trump. Everyone outside the US could plainly see the idiocy and hordes of people would descend to defend it while every passing day exposes it for the foolishness it was. Same will be the case here.
The UK is a financial centre, obviously if you pick as your start date a financial bubble it will look different.
But 10 years have passed. You were misleading people when you tried to imply that Brexit had something to do with GDP per capita statistics. It clearly doesn't. And many argue it's the other way around: the EU is the cause of the stagnation.
As for empire nostalgia as someone who moved from a colony it’s actually quite evident in the politics here
Evident in the politics? If it's evident then evidence it. You're seeing what you want to see: I can't recall any politicians talking about Empire. It never comes up. It's not even taught in school. The "people used to the glories of the empire" as you put it are virtually all dead. Nobody cares.
As for polls, they routinely show all kinds of garbage when pollsters ask questions that don't matter. For example 4% Americans believe the Earth is run by a conspiracy of lizards, and 7% aren't sure:
If some random person wasted my time by asking me if I'd like Britain to still have an empire, I'd probably say, sure why not? Empires have their benefits. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. That doesn't mean I'd think about it even one iota the rest of the time. Heck there was an HN thread just a few days ago about colonialism, that was the first time I'd seen it come up in years.
it feeds into a sense of exceptionalism and megalomania
The majority of the British voting population are not megalomaniacs. Listen to yourself. The very concept is absurd.
Anyway, if you're really convinced the UK is filled with delusional imperialist megalomaniacs, why not leave? You clearly have no respect for the country.
Italy or Spain is a best-case scenario. Looking at recent polls in Scotland - where support for the Union has collapsed among the under 50s - the UK will be lucky to still be a single country in 10 or 15 years' time.
Scottish exit is a very difficult idea to implement. Tories won’t allow another referendum at any cost. I feel for them and hope they can exit and rejoin EU.
The UK is a nation that is stagnating and this one two punch could be what pushes it into a decline.
Brexit has become something of a religious movement. Things will magically get better after brexit but first you need suffer for your past sins before you get to the promised land. It’s not at all clear how this will happen but the less possible it looks the stronger the faithful become.
People like me who try to dissuade people from Brexit try to paint a picture of doom and chaos. The UK will be “fine” but it will fall in the League of Nations to the influence of an Italy or a Spain and in the long term this can be hard to swallow for people used to the glories of empire.
This is also one of the most egregious cases of the older generation screwing over the futures of a younger generation by taking away huge opportunities from them. The enormity of this will take a decade to sink in. You’re going to see a lot of pissed off zoomers in 10 years who’ll work to reverse all of this anyway.