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Ask HN: Side projects that are making money, but you'd not talk about them?
442 points by whoisret on June 6, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 461 comments
One night in 2013 I had this stupid idea that people would start searching google for "who is retargeting me" just like they do with "what's my ip" — I've created in 30 minutes, bought the domain whoisretargeting.me and put Google Ads. It's made €7000 in 7 years. (1) Do you have projects like this?

(1) https://pasteboard.co/JbPKJRs.png




I really don't like talking about my side projects, so I guess they all qualify, but I'm particularly excited about one at the moment.

Right now I'm working on a dog treat business - I make a treat mix that you add water to and freeze for a meat-based frozen treat. I feel really good about the product and the packaging design (and this is the first time I've ever worked on any kind of a physical product, so it's really cool to see the boxes), and I've sold a few boxes so far. Trying out some advertising now and working on building a presence on Instagram, since that seems like a great place to reach dog people, and the product is pretty photogenic.

https://coopersdogtreats.com/


Thanks so much to the folks making purchases! Each time I get the email saying an order has come in, it reinforces for me that this is actually a product people want, which is just so ridiculously cool at this early stage. Thank you!!


> Right now I'm working on a dog treat business

Interesting, I'm a chef (ex?) and a friend of mine wanted to start a dog food company in 2016-17 but never got around to it. Your approach looks pretty straight forward, for some reason I thought you'd have to be at a commissary kitchen and have food handlers paperwork on top off all the stuff you mentioned.

I'll share your link with them and maybe they get re-interested, do you have any interest in a collaboration for dog food in the future? Provided it met your standards etc...

I actually wanted to see if we could do it entirely upcycling the loss in food waste in the supply chain and restaurants as I know that Industry well and have made efforts to try and reduce as much as possible. I honestly would take home multiple 3 pans full of high grade sashimi grade salmon from saute's prep, and at least 5 lbs of blood lined yellow fin tuna from my station every week.

I still have a bunch of it sitting in my freezer and I know tons of restaurants and farms are sitting on the same or more.


Yeah, I also thought there would be a whole lot more red tape to get through before I started looking into it. I can't imagine starting a human food company with everything that's required for that.

I'm happy to chat with anybody in the space - I'm very early on, so it may be too early for any kind of collaboration, but definitely never hurts to talk to other folks who are interested in this kind of thing.


Awesome!

I'll see what they say and reach out if they still have the motivation.

I'll refer to this post and drop you a line to your gmail account listed on your site of this materializes an take it from there.


Sounds great, thanks!


Sincere question—how do you handle legal, especially with consumables?


On the safety side, I've had crude analysis done (which is the standard nutritional testing for pet food in the US and was $250 per flavor), and I've consulted with a couple of vets to make sure the product is safe.

On the legal side, I've got business insurance, which thankfully isn't that expensive. I've been holding off on forming an LLC since that's gonna run me about a grand here in CA including the cost of setting it up and LLC tax, but if there's continued interest in the product, I'll do that soon.

Edit: Also AAFCO is a group that has standards for this sort of thing that are pretty straightforward: https://petfood.aafco.org/Portals/1/pdf/eight_required_labei...


Why not incorporate somewhere that's not CA?


If you do that then you have two problems: the same amount in fees from CA for being a foreign entity operating in that state + the fees of whatever state you formed your LLC/C-Corp/S-Corp/whatever.


That's a good question... the last couple of LLCs that I've formed have been for businesses that are clearly operating in CA (one was for real estate here and the other for a local service company) and thus require the LLC there. Since I'm selling to the whole US here, maybe it is a better option... I will look into it.


Lawyer here. Not yours. But consider Delaware or really any state. You do not need to form it in CA just because that’s where you are. Just get a registered agent and pick a state that doesn’t have oppressive LLC fees...


We've gone over this with our lawyers many times, but if you do the majority of your business operations in CA and have an LLC in any state you'll be subject to $800/year minimum franchise tax in CA still.

https://www.lobbplewe.com/blog/2019/09/rules-for-out-of-stat...


CA levies a (not insignificant) fee even for Delaware LLCs that operate in California.


Yes, $800. Same cost as forming the LLC.


Damn, that's what I was hoping to avoid :/


Weather tax.


What should we check to see which state is the best to form an LLC in? I want to double-check whether it’s viable to form one in my state before considering Delaware.

Why an LLC instead of an S-corp?


Because then you end up paying there _and_ in CA. Any state you do business in demands a cut. Even so, if you ever intend to sell your company or do business outside your state, it makes sense to be a Delaware company - lots of lawyers know Delaware business law.


why not an S-corp over an LLC?


I'm not an expert and will need to double check, but I believe an S-corp is more complex, and since it's just me it's not really any better. And from the tax side as an LLC you can elect to be taxed as an S-corp so no benefit there.


Phantom income from my s-corp excluded my family and I from healthcare subsidies when I really couldn't afford to pay full price for healthcare.


I wonder if the FDA (or equivalent in awillen's jurisdiction) would care about non-human consumables.


The FDA does regulate, but much more lightly - from their site:

"The FDA’s regulation of pet food is similar to that for other animal food. There is no requirement that pet food products have premarket approval by the FDA. However, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) requires that pet foods, like human foods, be safe to eat, produced under sanitary conditions, contain no harmful substances, and be truthfully labeled."


I'd hope they care at least some. Little kids love to eat dog/cat food and treats, and it's hard to keep them out of it. At least enough to make sure it's not, like, full of lead or something.


They can't even keep baby powder from being cancer causing - you're fooling yourself if you're solely relying on them for your safety.


Very cool idea! I went ahead and bought a starter kit. I think you're on to something here.


Thanks so much!


I agree with cableshaft, it seems like a good idea. ~24 treats from the $9.99 mix container is also quite reasonable. The site is solid, loads fast. I like your box packaging, it's well done. Good luck with this venture.


Thanks!


I had a look and this might be a completely ignorant suggestion (I don’t have a dog) but to me it was very surprising that dogs would like frozen food, so maybe you should explain that/why they do. Just seemed counterintuitive, I’ve never seen anybody give anything frozen to their dog.


Anecdata: many dogs I know of really enjoy ice cubes. A meat flavored ice cube would probably make them quite excited.


Anecdata: my cat loves ice cubes too. You can roll them all over the floor, lick them, carry them around - super fun.


Ice cream style treats (made for dogs, so not real ice cream) have become very popular with dog owners. You'll see them carried in all major grocery stores in the US now.

For example:

https://www.purina.com/frosty-paws

And:

http://dogstersicecream.com


Dogs can't sweat, which makes it hard for them to cool down. They cool off by panting.

In hot weather, I imagine a lot of dogs would go for something cold to consume if it was made available.


Hey, it's a bit of a head-scratcher why I made a note (well, username tag) of this, but according to it, it's your birthday today or tomorrow.

Might as well put the info to good use, so if correct: happy birthday!

(I suspect this was around the time a year or two ago that I was testing out my HN tagger extension/server)


Yes, yesterday was my birthday. I mostly laid low and did design work and the like on several reddits that I run.


A lot of dogs (mine included) love to crunch on ice cubes. You can also find a lot of recipes for frozen treats online - I started by looking there first, but they were all heavy on ingredients my dog isn't fond of (he really just likes meat).

Might be a geographical/climate thing. I'm in San Diego, so frozen treats are good year round here.


how did you find expiration dates for your consumables?


My feedback, product looks great, packaging looks great. I would not want to buy the Beef & Cheddar. Compare the label of Beef & Cheddar to Turkey & Cinnamon. Turkey & Cinnamon have four simple ingredients, Turkey, Yogurt Powder, Whole Wheat Flour, Cinnamon. Compare that to Beef & Cheddar, there are so many things in that ingredient list by comparison. When I think of food that is 'good for you' I want to see simple ingredients that I can pronounce, no food dyes or additives.


Thanks for the feedback! All the extra stuff on the B&C comes from the cheddar cheese powder - for the most part they're natural ingredients (excluding things like the yellow color, etc.), but you're right, it doesn't look great.

Once we get low on my current supply of cheese powder, I'm going to look into getting a food dehydrator to make my own cheese powder.


Food dehydrators are a fun rabbit hole. Florists use them for wedding bouquets. You will also find a TON of info about scrappily acquiring them on prepper websites. I've seen several posts by Mormon families (food preservation and supply is encouraged by the religion), and a lot of the good ones get into taste, methods for preparing food, and doing it in bulk (which you'd care about). But the se sites will have a large cross with militia and shtf type folks. So conversations will go not where you think sometimes.

I think the most informative one I read was on something like shtf fourms. It stayed tame, other than everyone wanting to buy the dehydrator after the author was done.


They're fun, but high-fat foods like dairy are mostly unsuitable for at home dehydration. Especially at a bulk level. I'm not an expert on nutrition labeling law but OP might have more luck listing "dehydrated cheddar cheese (ingredients, here)" with the ingredients in parenthesis. That signals to the consumer that even though there are a lot of big ingredients they are really just one thing.


What are "se sites"?


Misspelled. Shtf. Shit hits the fan. Type of prepper who is worried about full failure of society and all services. Stockpiling ammo, guns, plate armor, etc.

As opposed to say someone who keeps a month of food, water, fuel, meds, entertainment on hand, which looks pretty normal now.


Got it, thanks.


Yeah, one of the suppliers I've identified for freeze dried foods is one of those survivalist prepper type stores. I'm sure my use case is not what they're thinking about :)


What size are you looking at?


At the moment I'm buying #10 cans (which are like 3 quarts I believe), though obviously I'll try to scale that up if sales merit it.


That'd be a pretty big dehydrator / freeze dryer to use. I'm I'm guessing at least a 3-1 if not 5-1 ratio on cheese.


Hmm, yeah, that makes sense - I'd still be interested to try it just to understand the process and see how it turns out. Ultimately if this gets big enough I'd want to find a co-packer for production, so it would be good to understand the whole process at a small scale before going that route anyway.


I don't have a dog, so this is just a random question I'd be asking before buying if I did.. what's the smell like when making these? You say it's fun for the family but I would immediately be worried about it stinking like dog food and making my kids reek all day :-D Other than that, looks like a great idea and is the sort of thing I'd consider if I did have a dog!


Honestly, the Beef and Cheddar smells a little funky but not too bad (especially for people who are used to having dogs around), and the Turkey and Cinnamon smells pretty good because the turkey isn't that pungent, so the cinnamon masks it.

That said, when you're taking freeze dried meats and putting them in a food processor to turn them into powder, it stinks to high heaven and you end up with a light dusting of meat powder all over your kitchen. I don't recommend trying it :P


Haha, rather you than me :-) This might be partly why I don't have a dog though! Good luck with this, seems a nice business!


Thank you!


I love the idea, and will see if I'm able to buy some later. But trans-atlantic shipment and tariffs adds up, unfortunately. And I'm unsure if customs would let animalia get into the EU without special license.

Edit: I see now that your comments indicate that you're US only. Just to make sure you're aware, your site calculates and suggests shipping to Europe.


Ah, thanks - I'll have to look into that. I'm not opposed to selling internationally, but to your point I probably need to do a whole lot more research before I do.


This is great! We have a chihuahua though and I don't think he could eat these. Looks like all you would need to do to support smaller dog breeds is include a smaller silicone tray. If you end up exploring that, hit me up at my e-mail in my profile and I may order a set!


Thanks and will do! At the moment I'm just buying the ice cube molds, and I haven't seen any that are smaller, but I'll keep an eye out.

In the mean time you can always just skip the Starter Kit and buy the mix directly (https://coopersdogtreats.com/collections/frontpage/products/... and https://coopersdogtreats.com/collections/frontpage/products/...), then use any ice cube mold/tray you happen to have around.


There are all kinds of molds for making formed chocolates that come in small sizes


Totally sold — my Akita loves ice cubes so he’s bound go wild for these especially in the summer.


Glad to hear it!


Do you have any experience with the marketing part? I am kinda in the same situation but have no clue how marketing works and was wondering if you could share any insights.


I started my career doing some marketing and then moved to product management, all in tech at small startups. Even as a PM, because I joined companies of <50 people, I ended up helping out with marketing too.

Google Ads are pretty straightforward, so at this point I'm just running a couple and watching conversion rates - you basically just need to look at how much you're spending vs. how much revenue they're bringing in to figure out if they're worth it.

IG advertising is new to me - I'm planning to reach out to some dog accounts to see if I can offer free samples and possibly money for them to promote. No idea about what the going rate for that sort of thing is or how effective it'll be, but I'll find out soon :)


If you need any help in terms of seo / ppc / social ads you can ping anytime, if you are intersted in some kind of joint-venture or something.


If you could share your product/url, you might get some marketing ideas from HN community.


Would love to buy one of these if there was a meat free variant, my dog is alergic to meat and does not take it well - would love to see a vegetarian option!


What service are you using for shipping? If you don't mind answering what are the costs of offering free shipping?


It's a Shopify site, so I'm just using their integration to print labels from whoever's cheapest - so far it's always been USPS. Honestly the shipping is something I need to figure out... I'm charging flat shipping per product right now until $50 because I don't want shipping costs to be too discouraging, but I am losing money shipping to the East Coast.

For the most part my margins are pretty decent and at this point I'm more interested in proving that there's product-market fit than optimizing for profit, so I don't mind losing some money when my shipping charges don't cover it or people hit the free shipping threshold. Definitely something I'm going to need to get a better handle on long term, though.


Let me know if you're interested in having an East Coast facility!


I appreciate the offer, but I think I am quite a ways away from that at this point :)


how do people generally get in contact with manufacturers?


I’m fascinated by people who can turn an idea into a product. Do you mind sharing your process?


I'm afraid it's not really very interesting - I moved to SD, it was very hot, and I wanted to make frozen treats for my dog (the Cooper of Cooper's treats). I looked up recipes, but they all had ingredients he's not a fan of, so I figured I'd make my own. Had some freeze dried meats, put those in a food processor, mixed with water and froze them. He loved them, but it was kind of a disgusting slop of a liquid at first. I played around with other ingredients to make it look/smell better, and we ended up with the flavors I have.

After that, I thought folks might want to buy these, so I had packaging and logo designs done on 99designs, set up a Shopify site, and here we are.


so it’s homemade, not done at a facility?


Very cool.

My dog loves the frozen bones with marrow, which I dub frobos.

I’m sure he would love these!


Thank you! I haven't tried frozen marrow bones, but I will definitely give them a whirl - I'm sure my dog would like them.


Oh wow this is looking great!

I'd certainly be a customer if I lived in the US.


Thanks so much! Hopefully one day we'll go international :)


The idea is pretty solid. I’d totally buy if it were grain free.


Thanks! I've been thinking about how to do it grain free, but it's really tough to get to that point and still keep it at a reasonable price.


I thought grain free wasn’t so cool anymore since that stuff came out about canine heart disease? Maybe I’m misremembering


obligatory question: did you eat your own dogfood?


I have sprinkled some of the cheese powder I use in my mac and cheese, but that's about the closest I get :P. Luckily my dogs are happy to help out.


I commented elsewhere about an East Coast presence... your comment above has me thinking about CBD infusion options, too.

Something I'm very familiar with for treating older woofs in pain, and spazzy "I hate the vet" woofs, haha! Hope to hear from you.


I just don't feel like I'm nearly educated enough on CBD in dogs to start using that as an ingredient. I know it's become very common very quickly, but I'd have to read all the research before I could consider it.


> I just don't feel like I'm nearly educated enough on CBD in dogs to start using that as an ingredient. I know it's become very common very quickly, but I'd have to read all the research before I could consider it.

It's been done:

https://www.carolinahempcompany.com/products/lalas-cbd-dog-t...

When hemp was still in the grey area they got hit with shut down by CDPHE at the behest of an undisclosed pharma giant. The creator of those treats was a friend of my co-founder and a regular at our parent company's events in CO where she sold her products. She might have gotten an award at the hemp awards, I'm not sure.

The efficacy of CBD is well understood, what isn't is the standardization and practices for effective administration be it in Humans or animals. My guess is you'd get into issues with freezing the hemp oil/extract infused cbd effectively. I mean you could use shatter, if you were really motivated.

Also, this could subject you to bank account shutdowns and business license delays if your bank(s) find out.

Source: Ex fintech founder with hemp farmers, and ex biodynamic farmer that studied hemp and its various properties during apprenticeship and biologist.


The FDA would probably have something to say about it. They don’t want CBD in human foods either and I believe they have sent warning letters for pet foods as well. (They call it “mislabeled” because it’s not a “food” but a drug since CBD is now used medically by Epidolex, or something like that)


Well, drop me an address if you want to exchange info for the future.

I use burners on social media, so, no info in my bio.


Who did you use for your packaging? What made you choose them?


I ran a 99Designs contest for a logo, and the winner of that also had some experience doing packaging design, so I used her: https://99designs.com/profiles/bettymar.

I just thought she really captured the feel I was looking for - it's an upscale product, but it's for dogs so I still wanted it to feel fun.


Very cool! I really like seeing you respond to all the questions in the thread. It's giving me a really eye-opening view into the nuts and bolts of bootstrapping a physical product company. Thank you so much for going into detail!


Thanks! I spent 10 years as a PM in enterprise SaaS, and my favorite part was always talking to our brick and mortar small business customers. Maybe it's just a grass is greener thing, but doing something with a tangible product has always just seemed so cool to me.


How about for a printer? Packaging manufacturing is complex


Maybe I just got lucky then... I just Googled "mailer box printing" or something like that, found a few sites and picked this one based on price: https://www.uprinting.com/.

The designer gave me image files that were formatted correctly, so I just sent them in and had boxes at my door a few days later. They look great: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-srBIsJgND/


thanks mate, my two dogs will love this. my dog just got spayed, and isn't taking to her treats. i think this would really make her happy.


I really hope it does!


This is great and it's something I'd definitely buy for my dog.


Thank you, glad to hear it!


That's unexpected but cool!


Thank you!


My app Twitter Archive Eraser (https://martani.github.io/Twitter-Archive-Eraser) used to be free, then I added a donation button and people, while barely donated, used to say that this is something they would have paid for!

I worked on a paid tier (learnt a tremendous amount about actually selling an app, integration with payment processors, licensing, more legal stuff than I wanted to etc.)

Almost from the get go, it started making +$3k/mo. With more changes and offering a Mac version along a Windows version, it averages around +$7k/mo of revenue consistently. I'm the only person on it and have a full time job. Barely need to make code changes and it requires minimal effort for customer support.


I've setup a few applications to which people say "I'd pay for this", but when I've added all the payment integration(s) those users disappear.

So congratulations for finding a niche which did actually result in paying users.


Hi I am currently working on releasing the paid version of my app (online voice memo).

I was wondering about any resources you have to learn about licensing and legal stuff, or any common caveats that you ran into.


It depends on your situation but if you are in the US I'd create an LLC and do business with that. It takes a few minutes if you use services that file for you.

Second will be dealing with sales tax and it's a nightmare. If you sell to customers in Europe you need to pay VAT to different countries at different rates. Same goes for US states that tax very differently. We moved recently to paddle.com which acts as a reseller and so they take care of all sales tax collection and remittance (they are the one selling the app after all). We moved away from PayPal and so far it's been very smooth.


You can also do what I do and just ignore those foreign taxes, on both practical and philosophical grounds.

On a practical level, no foreign government is going to bother you until your sales are in the millions, at least. They don’t have the ability to know your sales in the first place, and you’re way too small to bother trying to go after. Especially since there’s no real enforcement mechanism for, say, France to try and collect $200 from some random American online software business.

Philosophically, I vehemently disagree with the premise that a foreign jurisdiction can tax my business because their citizens choose to visit my website and buy things. Should German websites pay a 200% tax if citizens of Eritrea buy things from their website, just because Eritrea passes a law that says that? I have zero representation or connection to these jurisdictions, and if they want tax money or to stop their citizens from using my website, that’s between the citizens and their government. Until there’s some enforcement mechanism, I’ll just keep ignoring them like I always have.


How about sales taxes in the US. Do you keep records to when you hit tax nexus and start collecting it then? Manually or using some service? I'd be interested in learning how you approached this problem.


I second this. If you sell worldwide, there isn't any reason for you to handle the taxes and payment methods on your own. Actually, there's a whole bunch of companies that would do that for a relatively small cut (about 5% give or take). From the top of my head: 2Checkout, Bluesnap, DigitalRiver, FastSpring. I don't know much about Paddle, but they spammed me quite aggressively using the email from a leaked LinkedIn dump, so I'm not sure how much I would trust them.


Not that it matters, given the clear demand for the product, but there's a typo in the "Performance" section of the link. The body copy "performance" is "performace"

Congrats on a product successful from the beginning!


Really great idea! Just a small note though your pricing page doesn’t work on a mobile device. It just renders a bunch of checkmarks without context


I really like the UI - is this an Electron app, or what is the stack you use?


Indeed. The original version was C#/WPF and worked on windows only. I got so many requests for a Mac version and knew it was decent demand. So I switched to electron: 1 code base works for Mac and windows plus has automatic updates for when bug fixes are released etc.

And sure enough Mac users account for 30% for the revenue today.

Another advantage is that it runs completely on the user's computer. So I have no database or back-end to maintain. There is only a small server to generate licenses + handle some analytics the app emits both built on ASP.NET. The only data I store is in a Microsoft Azure table. I pay around $2 a month for all azure costs.


how does a license server work? did you build it yourself?


It's in-house. A license has some info tied to the user (which ultimately has to be the Twitter user connected via Twitter). Then all that is signed with a private key ECDSA. The app has the public key and can verify the signature. Many libraries are available for handling cryptographic signatures.

So basically a license is public info, the app enforces that the logged in user must match the user in the license.


Forgot to mention that it's an Angular app running on electron.


Sorry about the late comment (hackernewsletter) but I found the pricing page a bit confusing, since you mention both "one-time payment" and license valid for one year".

Do I have to pay every year to keep using the app?


Now a twitter user, and hence a basic question - 1. This app lets user select a bunch of their tweets and delete them?

Question - Does something like this exist for Facebook?


good for you but its sad this is a viable business. Imagine being a working adult and getting in trouble for something you thought was funny as a high school freshman.


You still can, this app just helps you with batch-deletion of content you've created. Single posts can just be deleted ;-)


Dang congrats that is a solid monthly income and solo wow.


How did you find your early users?


The app was developed for use for myself. Then I put it online for other to use for free. The advantage (and probably missing part in the original description) is that the app was free for +5 years before I added a paid tier. So we already had a decent user base.


It's probably not what you meant, but I recently created a weekend project bot that scans facebook for apartments rental ads. Thanks to this bot, I landed an opportunity I wouldn't have catch otherwise, saving me 6,000$ a year. Assuming I will hold my new apartment for 3 years, this is a net savings of 18,000$. I haven't sold anything, but yet I created something that "generated money" for me.

My code is open source by the way, and I wrote about it here: https://snir.dev/blog/apartments-bot/


Interesting. I've never heard of apartment posts in facebook groups but I'm in the bay area.

Do other people here in the US have this experience as well? I was thinking it'd be Facebook marketplace, craigslist, and apartment sites (like apartments.com)


I can say that people in Israel prefer facebook groups for many reasons:

1. It allows for "team search". My friends knew I'm looking, so they tagged me in relevant posts they saw. Can't do it anywhere else (including marketplace by facebook themselves)

2. It allows for group communication with the publisher of the post. One asks - everybody sees.

3. It gives a sense of power to those who seek to rent. Many posts with high prices have comments like "You are crazy", "You are a pig", "whoever pays this much is as sucker". It almost warms the heart, we fight the greedy landlords. It almost make it fun, like a witch hunt.


As a landlord though, what’s the reason to use Facebook then? Is there no alternative like craigslist in Israel?

I’ve only seen posts of apartments for rent in Facebook groups that are aimed at college students. (In the US)

Otherwise, Craigslist is basically king.


Young people use facebook to find apartments.

So if your apartments target young couples or room mates, facebook is your place. For families we have craiglist-like solutions.


A Facebook group is the primary source for advertising rental properties in Juneau, AK. Just a normal group, not the marketplace.


Ditto Helsinki, Finland:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/235368102105

I listed my rental flat a bunch of places before using the group, since I started using it I'd not look elsewhere.


FB buying/selling groups (particularly for housing) are quite common I'd say. In my experience, you will generally find them categorized as part of a college or university (e.g. "San Jose State University (SJSU) Housing"), but a quick search for "Bay Area housing" also results in numerous such groups.


typical at college campuses in the us


Thanks for sharing this, I tried to write a bot to crawl a few music related Facebook groups a while ago and it was really difficult. I'm going to give it another shot following a similar method to this. Cheers!


This is great, congrats on the savings. Do you have any opinions on the ethics of web scraping? I have some projects I want to pursue that involve web scraping but I'm worried about

1) any illegal technicalities 2) is it a dick move to the website owner


I was a CTO of a company that did scraping to gather data and sell the analysis. We did this for sellers on Amazon.

In short about legality - it depends on the country. But most will define user content as owned by the user, not the platform, therefore legal to scrape and use, as the user intents for the data to be public.

But sites will fight you on this. Amazon specifically give up a really good fight.

Ofcourse, this talks about user content in an "open" platform. If the content is owned by a business that has no intentions for it to be open for everyone in every medium, its probably illegal.

In regard to being a dick move, it depends. If someone posted an ad in facebook, he intended for it to be seen. He doesn't care how. I just tunnel it to myself in easier way for me to consume.


I think there was also case law about this recently[1] regarding LinkedIn, where if the content isn't behind a login wall, it can't legally be considered anything but public. The UGC aspect is an interesting angle I haven't thought of, but that's a fantastic point too. Would I be correct in saying that the same mechanism companies set up to evade responsibility for illegal UGC also sets it up to be legal to scrape? And if the user owns the material, what happens if you've already made money selling that data and they ask for their cut of the proceeds?


Not OP, but I find that the ethical questions tend to not be about web scraping itself and more what you are using it to accomplish. If you want to scrape and rehost some data then your ethical violation is in the copying and rehosting, not that you automated the downloading of data. It would be the same if you copied all the data by hand and then rehosted it.

Then, of course, the way you go about it is important, too. Sapping the resources and bandwidth of a small site by sending it thousands of requests a minute is very different from automatically checking a public index once an hour.


1) No idea... probably location-specific too.

2) I ask the owner first (perhaps they even want to send me the data directly). If they don't respond, I go ahead and scrape, spreading the requests over a long time so as not hit their website too hard.


> is it a dick move to the website owner

FB gets more user engagement out of this, which is their goal. No harm, no foul.


In this virus season alone I've made $8000 in sales.

You'll find various subreddits where people are buying around 5-10spools a month. Imagine how much virgin plastic is being added like that to the environment.

I've been creating filament and selling it:

https://medium.com/endless-filament/make-your-filament-at-ho...

This activity also help recycle waste plastic.

Production cost of filament is $7.5 per 5kg and filament roll has 850 gram filament and can be sold for $20-30 per spool

It's trivial to get the quality right.

You can sell rolls on Amazon, eBay and Etsy or your own Shopify store and use Facebook ads/Google Ads to advertise your website.

That said I didn't use any ads to sell filament! Only few days ago I started Shopify store and paid $5-10 in Facebook ads. Since we accept credit card, it's not too much of a risk for buyer to buy it from us (even when are new)

I work from home so I take 5 minute break and walk to my garage and check if the filament machine successfully is running on auto pilot

Thing is filament doesn't have huge demand, neither it has very less demand. So you can dominate local demand by creating quality filament.

I focus on fulfilling local demand, I've gained customers who need large supply of filament of ABS, TPU and Nylon12.

If people do actually come to compete with me, it's a win win. More plastic recycled = less plastic entering landfill.


Wow, great initiative. I think this is a perfect example of the market solving the problem fast. My main question is, how are you thinking about emissions and waste? Presumably, you've got to melt and extrude these things somewhere, and heating the plastic to its melting point to create decent sized quantities of this will result in harmful emissions of some kind. Do you have some sort of a scrubbing system? If so, how did you figure out what kind of system to set up and right size it for your production capacity?


>Presumably, you've got to melt and extrude these things somewhere, and heating the plastic to its melting point

Right now I do nothing for emissions.

It happens inside a barrel that reduces a lot of emissions.

The emission will appear near the nozzle and the hopper. As those are the only opening in the barrel.

Once filament exists the nozzle, after 10inches, it goes into a water bath.

In future tho, I'll add HEPA+Activated charcoal filter lid on the hopper and use same for nozzle but with an extraction fan.


>It's trivial to get the quality right.

as someone who has 3d printed nearly 100kg with FDM machines in the past year, I can't disagree more.

Filament extrusion foaming coefficients are all over the place, even only looking at 'cheap' PLA, let alone PETG. This leads to excess oozing and inconsistent extrusion widths, leading to failed or out-of-tolerance parts.

Color is all over the place for anything but the darkest or lightest colors for the cheap stuff.

Filament widths are wildly inconsistent even within the same companies products -- this leads to extruder jams on the cold side.

Cheap filament spools are commonly fused or spliced together mid-roll, leading to a bump at the splice that has to be shaved -- often it isn't, again leading to extruder jams.

Spools that are spliced together often have poor circularity near the splice -- another chance for a jam.

I've received dusty spools that were vacuum packed, and spools that were vacuum packed with condensation visible on the inside of the packaging (humidity and moisture can damage many filaments, leading to lengthy rebake procedures if the filament survives at all.).

I appreciate your effort, and i'm glad you're doing well in business -- but the quality of your product must come from efforts you don't realize, because the quality on the market for cheap filament is , in HN parlance, a dumpster fire.


>as someone who has 3d printed nearly 100kg with FDM machines in the past year, I can't disagree more

If you run into problems, feel free to reach out to me. My telegram is in the medium article - I'll help you solve all your problem while extruding filament.

>even only looking at 'cheap' PLA, let alone PETG.

I don't extrude PLA or PETG at all, buying these special resins is difficult and costs 3x or 5x the ABS. I ask for the lowest wrappage and viscosity blend specially made for extrusion.

I buy general purpose polymers like extrusion grade granules of TPU, Nylon12 (it absorbs the least moisture in all nylons) and ABS - buy them from reputable companies they come in membrane sealed bags of 25kg. These polymers are mass produced and finding them for cheap around $1.4-$3 is easy.

>Filament widths are wildly inconsistent even within the same companies products -- this leads to extruder jams on the cold side.

Before jumping into making filament I researched on Amazon and found most filament being sold is within plus minus 0.05 to 0.02mm tolerance. Upon further research I found that these tolerances are trivial to achieve with sufficiently powered extruder and the industrial machines used for making medical grade silicone tubes can achieve plus minus 0.001mm tolerance using dual axis laser and feedback loop controlling pulling speed at high frequency.

You extrude fast, you lose tolerance. Companies might want more througput if their customers don't care about the dimensions and only want ultra cheap stuff.

I don't splice, all my filament is continuous length.

>I've received dusty spools that were vacuum packed, and spools that were vacuum packed with condensation visible on the inside of the packaging (humidity and moisture can damage many filaments, leading to lengthy rebake procedures if the filament survives at all.).

You need to seal the filament spool right after it's ready with a 10-20grams of dessicant. There are special vaccume seal bags and handheld vaccum sealer for low volumes like I am doing it's good enough.

>but the quality of your product must come from efforts you don't realize, because the quality on the market for cheap filament is

You'll have to troubleshoot the issues with your filament yes but once you've figured it out - it becomes easy.

I've written several part articles on my medium blog with many more to come where I'll write about common issues and their solutions.

I have had more difficulty in shooting down bugs in production code than building extruder. Just saying that skill level of a programmer and some random guy off the street might have difference. With some guidance anyone can do it.

My wife is now tuning extruder, filling the hopper and extruding filament as good as me. She doesn't have technical education background. Arguably, I find baking to more difficult than extruding filament, but it could be just that baking doesn't exite me.

I appreciate you concerns but quality of filament has lots of parameters but most common problems appear when:

1. Seller has bought the filament like PLA in bulk from china for $3-4 a spool. They buy a full container load at once to make it as cheap as possible. After a year on shelf even when placed in vaccum sealed bags, PLA becomes brittle. And you'll have very hard time printing with it - it will snap at different places randomly and your prints will fail.

2. Inconsistent diameter - these are extruding too fast or using low quality resin with no good operator on machine available for tuning. For example if I want to extrude 1kg filament and I add 200gram resin of A company, I ran out then I add 200gram resin or B company, you'll have to tune extruder again. Better create filament in large batches from the resin from same batch.


Wow awesome idea. How many rolls do you produce a day?

How about recycling plastic waste ground on the beach?


I make 15-20 rolls a day. I'll be adding few more extruders soon - waiting for shipping of additional parts to start building new machines on weekend.

Well, picking up beach plastic is too much work - I am not that involved, I need easy automated work haha.

There are already companies who pick and sort, shred and wash plastic for you and even convert it into granules - so it's much better to give them more business so the are able to pick more of the waste.


Recycling plastic is hard because it will be degraded to various levels, will be of different plastic types, will be dirty, will have custom additives, etc.

If you are interested in plastic recycling: https://preciousplastic.com/


We need more research into it I guess also see: https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/greek-researchers-determ...

Here they report improved ABS properties on recycling


This test does not simulate actual product recycling where the plastic is exposed to sunlight and liquids. Its environmental iterations that cause the degradation.

Interesting findings though.


There was a company doing just this on a recent episode of Dragon's Den (Canadian equivalent of Shark Tank). I even think it was a bunch of high school kids.


I've no doubt anyone can do this within a few weeks (if they work on weekends only)

People can start with extruding clay or Noddles to start


I wanted to learn iOS dev, so made the simplest game I could think of: a card game where you just draw a random card and win if it's between two values. Then I made another app that just transliterates your name into Japanese characters and displays that. That one made $33 / year.

Together they almost covered the Apple Developer fee :-)

Things continued like this for years, until one day Apple started getting harsher on gambling. While my game has no other players, and the "money" you win doesn't save anywhere or get you anything, it was still gambly enough that I could no longer have it in the store as an individual developer. Then the Japanese name app was also removed because it wasn't substantive enough (I don't disagree).

I don't mention them usually, because the loss didn't mean much to me and I'm still fine with developing for iOS in the future. But here you asked especially for projects that made money but that we wouldn't usually talk about.


Stories like this have me convinced that choosing to do serious business with a company like Apple or Google, has a strong chance of ending up in losing time and money. Maybe you'll get a few users, maybe not. Maybe they'll remove your entire catalog of apps, maybe not.

At least my domain registrar and hosting provider probably won't remove my website.


Just a suggestion... try Flutter. This way you at least get a cross platform app with (arguably) less work. Doubles your marketplace and reduces your risk on a single store blocking you. Also consider that what sells on iOS may sell even better on Android.


> While my game has no other players, and the "money" you win doesn't save anywhere or get you anything, it was still gambly enough that I could no longer have it in the store as an individual developer.

Uh oh. I am developing a single player game that's somewhat similar to yours and was planning to release it on iOS. It doesn't involve money, just points, but it is push your luck. Do you know what I should be looking for to see Apple's new guidelines for this?


I'm not sure, the message I got didn't refer to any particular definition of gambling.

"In order to reduce fraudulent activity on the App Store and comply with government requests to address illegal online gambling activity, we are no longer allowing gambling apps submitted by individual developers. This includes both real money gambling apps as well as apps that simulate a gambling experience."


Thanks. I think I'm okay. I'm not having players bet anything, or doing loot boxes or anything like that, so I think I'll be okay.

That being said, I do have a board game design where you do bet chips that I would have liked to make a software version of. Guess I'm not releasing that one on iOS.


Out of curiosity, did you make those apps paid or chose to show ads within app UI?


Both were paid. Also forgot to mention (implied though), but the card game one made $60/year.


Props to you. Recently I was looking for something to measure my cruise speed on a bicycle, and a single developer appears to dominate App Store search results with a dozen or more nearly identical speedometer apps—all free and packed with ads.

When I think that Apple would allow that, but not an honest paid app that transliterates a name into another language, I start questioning whether I should get into that ecosystem, or rather focus on Mac apps only and distribute them outside of the store.


It's been a long time, so seems I got the reason a bit wrong when I looked into it properly now. It seems I could have avoided it by improving any small bit:

"We noticed that your app has not been updated in a significant amount of time... To keep your app on the App Store, submit an updated version for review and make sure it follows the latest App Review Guidelines. If you are unable to submit an update within 30 days, your app will be removed from the App Store until you submit an update and it is approved."


I made a grainy and poor-quality but useful video on how to fix a specific issue for Macs which didn’t have a video anywhere else.

Spent 5 minutes to make the video and upload it.

Was making $2-3/month, which is a great ROI for 5 minutes of work.

All positive comments and upvotes because the video is useful.

Then YouTube demonetized all small publishers because they can somehow block spam, but not identify “offensive” content.

Fuck you Youtube.


If you just want to share, posting to p2p network like peertube/zeronet/ipfs and blog help you stay away from censorship. You can still accept donation. If you want to sell it, it's less smooth though


I'll bite - can you post a link?


I sell prints of public domain artwork on Etsy [0]. I’ve automated the print production and fulfillment, so all I need to do is set up the artwork and maintain the product listings.

It consistently brings in around £100-300 per month and if I put any time at all into marketing it could probably do a lot better.

I also maintain a directory of UX tools, resources and information [1]. It currently doesn’t bring in anything but it’s more of a repository for stuff I find interesting than a commercial venture.

[0] https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/TheDoveAndTheSeagull

[1] https://www.uxlift.org/


The uxlift directory is pretty cool. Any way to submit more tools/articles to it? I am working on a side-project that's like a self-hosted hotjar ( https://www.usertrack.net ), which might be helpful for the readers.


Oh that’s cool, thanks for sharing. I’ll post it when I’ve got a moment.

There’s a form on the site, but if you’ve got anything else you want to share just send it to uxlift@kevan.tv.

I’m really interested in self-hosted, privacy-respecting alternatives to the big tracking platforms so this is right up my street. (Having said that, I do use GA, but I’m not happy about it.)


I've often thought about doing this or something similar. Can I ask, how long have you been at it? How did you pick your initial round of public domain pictures? What was your growth curve like?

And did you automate the print/production initially or do it only after you'd been around for a while? If you don't mind me asking, what print/production company are you using, how did you find them and why did you settle on them (vs. someone else, say)?

Any more information would be welcome.


I’ve been doing it for around 4 years now. Growth has been slow initially because you need a lot of listings to be noticed - the bigger sellers all have over 1000.

I knew I wanted to do something with public domain art prints, so I researched other sellers to find the types of things that were popular. Lots of places like the Library of Congress, NYPL and the Rijksmuseum have open access policies, so I regularly hunt through their collections to find interesting stuff. The problem is always finding something in the public domain that’s also very high resolution.

For a long time I produced the pieces myself as buying top quality paper and a decent printer worked out cheaper than using a print company - and I quite enjoyed it. However I’ve decided now that the convenience is worth the extra cost.

I’ve also automated creating listing images by using Cloudinary and a few shell scripts. This has been a massive time-saver.

As for print companies, it’s a balance between cost, quality and price. The big ones like Printful or Gooten are cheaper and do everything from t-shirts to phone cases, but have a limited range of paper and sizes. Specialist fine art places have a huge range of paper and produce better prints but are much more expensive.


Does etsy have add-ons/integrations like Shopify does? For example on Shopify you can integration with printful and the orders automatically get set to printful for fulfillment.

Edit Never mind, I see your response to another question.


Growth has been slow initially because you need a lot of listings to be noticed - the bigger sellers all have over 1000.

Have you thought about padding your collection for the sake of exposure?


Could you elaborate on your automation toolset?


There are a number of print-on-demand companies, like Printful and Pwinty that integrate with Etsy and can print and fulfil orders. Annoyingly there’s no single one that does everything I need, so I use a few, depending on the customer’s location and the type of print they’ve selected.

I’m also working on a Jekyll-based site that uses the Etsy API to build a stand-alone e-commerce site from all my Etsy store listings.


I used to sell extra naughty bikinis online, in addition to being a consultant for distributed real-time machine learning.

People had a hard time combining the image of a nerd in the basement with that of a flashy sales guy surrounded by models. So I usually didn't mention the bikinis to allow me to charge full nerd pricing for my coding.

This site project brought in roughly €500 monthly with almost no work, because I was renting space in a fulfillment center combined with shopify and a marketing contractor.


That’s quite interesting combination.

How did you charge the marketing contractor?

I wanted to reached out to marketing contractor but haven’t had much information

Thank you!


The marketing contractor charged me. The way it worked was that if a new email or WhatsApp message or Instagram PM came in, he would get notified and work on it. And he measured the time for each task and then billed me for his time. Since it was usually only a few minutes for each work task, that only summed up to a few hundred $ per month.

As one example of the kind of tasks he handled:

Prospective customers could send in their measurements via WhatsApp and he would then look up into our internal measurement tables to determine which bikini size to order.

Or we would get collaboration invites from Instagram Influencers via PM or E-Mail. He would check their follower counts, bot ratio, etc. and then use an (internal secret) Google Docs to calculate the estimated value for us. He'd then use that to either decline or determine how generous our promotional gift would be.

Nowadays, the concept is called VA = Virtual Assistant, for example like what https://timesvr.com/ offers.


Thanks for your detailed answer! That really helped me learn about it.

All the best with your side business (and all)!


Glad to help :)

I got started with my endeavors from people explaining things to me on programming IRC channels, so despite its bad reputation, advice from random strangers on the internet can be good advice.

As for this particular project, I stopped it when I ran out of bikinis and couldn't buy more at the same conditions anymore. At the same time, competition from China was also arriving in the form of dropshipping. I could have switched suppliers to reduce my purchase costs and remain competitive, but selling a high volume of cheap products is a lot more work than selling a low volume of high priced items.


Oh well, since it was your side-project so I guess letting it go wasn't hard. But you got the core idea of selling online :)


How did you find your marketing contractor? What were they doing?


I met the marketing guy through a business brunch that the DC (a club for online marketers) was organizing every 2 weeks in Saigon back in 2015.

What he did was mostly to reply to whatsapp messages and to grant free bikinis to Instagram influencers.

One particularly good angle was yoga teachers. They'd usually be doing retreats at exotic locations and posting inspirational photos multiple times per day. Plus the yoga teachers that are popular on Instagram tend to be extremely attractive girls doing slightly suggestive poses. So that was a great fit for my bikinis.

And you'd be surprised how cheap Instagram influencers are. There's so many people who want to be famous that it's 100% a buyer's market.


I guess it all makes sense once you spell it out like this, but I suppose that for the long tail after the really popular influencers, it really is a buyers market. Did you use any influencer marketing platforms to manage your influencer representatives, or did you do it pretty manually?


I believe we didn't use any platform, but I'm not entirely sure.

The marketing contractor organized a list of Instagram handles, follower counts, and email addresses. I don't really know from where, but my guess would be that it was from his marketing buddies. I mean it wouldn't make sense for an agency to just grant us direct access to all of their members.

He then initially emailed some of them manually. After our brand became more popular, we sometimes received offers via email or pm. He would then determine the value for us and reply accordingly.


how did you find a manufacturer and the right number of SKUs?


I paid an Italian guy experienced in the fashion industry. He organized all of the bikinis for one upfront purchase price, which also included service fees for him.

But that was a pity later on when I ran out of bikinis and didn't manage to hire him again.


This guy sounds like the key angle on your business. How did you find him in the first place?


Yes, when he couldn't broker another delivery, I stopped selling. He was crucial to the business.

I knew him through a shared friend. I lived in Asia for some years, and that's where most westerners go if they want to create a manufacturing business.


Really interested in this question - am looking at a particular clothing niche and wondering whether to just get a run of cheapy print-on-demand clothing, or look for a batch of better quality custom produced stuff.


It's like $12 per print on demand versus $2 per screenprinted ahead of time.

Plus screen printing tends to have much stronger colors and feel more valuable than the offset printing used in on-demand production.

I'd suggest a Kickstarter to finance a 100+ shirt bulk order at $15 per shirt. That way, you have good profit margins and good quality.


I have a creative writing site that lets authors write branching fiction novels together. It's stupid fun, we have Discord/Zoom writing events Sunday nights where we try to write chapters together (usually around 500 words) and read them to each other. It existed years ago and made some advertising money, and then I shut it down because of spam problems (since solved). I brought it back to live because of COVID. I'm petrified to launch the site live because it's on a 10-year-old php stack, the website design looks like it's from the late 90's, and my IP policy sucks (on submit, I own all copyrights, my current authors don't mind but it's always bugged me) and I have no other compliance things going on like coppa or privacy policies because I don't know how to do that and do I really want to hire a lawyer if I have no ambitious revenue plans? If I keep advertising turned off (my preference), my only other current revenue path is publishing books when all threads get concluded, and the writing quality, while better than most similar sites, is not really publication quality. So for now it just sits behind an apache password prompt and gets very little traffic, and that's ok for now. Although if anyone here likes the idea of writing silly creative writing stories on a private website, feel free to message me. Main story right now is a girl who is invited to mage school except she accidentally kills her boyfriend. Well, that's just one thread. In another thread he's a firemoose.


Is it a branching tree or a dag? I was just thinking it might be a fun challenge to combine branches occasionally.

As in: now he's a dead firemoose.


Absolutely. I discourage cyclic, but dag is ok. It can be hard to write a downstream chapter (and keep the plot consistent) when there are two upstream paths, so we don't do it a lot, but we have a few examples. I think in our current story of about 110 chapters, we have three crosslinks, and two of them have a major impact on the story. I wrote a pretty snazzy react/cytoscape thing to visualize and explore the maps.


I really love this idea, and would love to try it out.


I dropped you a note.


I made almost 6 figures a year on an affiliate website promoting natural health products, when they were extremely popular back in 2006.

I would stay awake some nights and jot down every product mentioned in overnight infomercials (before I knew what TiVo was). then write a review on them the next day.

Thousands of people would search for “X review” in the days after watching those infomercials and I would rank #1 because some of them were brand new products.


Sounds unethical


Isn't this what this post is all about?


How did you reach this conclusion? OP never asked for unethical ideas. I interpreted "but you'd not talk about them" as "not to attract competition", not "unethical or illegal"

BTW, writing fictional reviews for money is not only unethical, it can be illegal too


I decided to put it out there because it was exactly what the OP asked. It’s something I would rather not talk about. Whether you think it’s unethical/illegal is up to you of course.

For what it’s worth, i am no longer involved with this today.


how/why illegal?


Google Search should be smarter about these kinds of practices.


Unfortunately, this is a very hard problem to solve. Google would have to be aware of GP in advance, would have to know their nature, and would have to know that they weren't someone who was given access to the new products early to review. If anything, it would have to be up to those companies selling the product to look for early reviews but even then, they'd have to make sure that GP wasn't a legitimate reviewer


Why?


A product review for something they only heard about? They didn't actually buy the product, try it out. Its lying and misleading visitors.


Where the reviews entirely fiction?


Naturally. You don't think they actually got hold of (and tried) the products in between seeing the infomercial on TV and posting the "review"?


what’s TiVo and how do you find products to review now? do you just look up the most recent trends on the news?


TiVo = First major DVR Product. Still quite an excellent platform today.


This was more of a one-time launch, but I made around 25k off it. Half of that went to affiliates.

Bit of background - lots of Amazon sellers use a software called tactical arbitrage that scrapes retailers to get prices and compares prices to Amazon. It comes with a couple hundred sites built in, and the ability to add new sites using custom xpaths. I made a chrome extension that lets you point and click on arbitrary sites to automatically create an xpath file that would be compatible with this software. Charged $199 for it, although I had some launch specials at $149 and above.

Still have a handful of organic sales a year, although it's not really worth the time spent in support anymore. In retrospect I should have made it $99 upfront plus $10/month or something and provided ongoing support.


What's the name of the extension?

Thanks.


It's called "TA Xpath Builder" and easily found on Google. But I haven't updated it in years and it doesn't work on all sites, haven't actively promoted it since the initial launch. I do have a 30 day money back guarantee though.


It’s very small at the moment, but I built a simple way to stand up a landing page, collect payment, and send out a link.

Primarily have yoga instructors using this as a better way to collect payment for Zoom classes compared to collecting payment on Venmo or using another tool they’re not comfortable with such as Gumroad.

Only charging .6% on top of Stripe’s fees and no monthly. Only making a little money at the moment but it’s scaling and seeing interest from lots of random online instructors.

ClassUp - https://www.classup.io


This is really cool - how have your customers found you? I imagine a lot of people would do content through Instagram?


Thank you! All word of mouth so far. I’ve personally reached out to instructors I’ve found on Instagram but am considering doing more traditional marketing.


Why is it better than gumroad?


Yogis and fitness instructors I've spoken to see Gumroad as being too "techie" and the few that have tried it felt it was more geared towards selling online assets, rather than live classes.

For now it's very basic, but I'm working on a few features that are specifically geared to helping live class creators sell more easily, primarily calendar integration, support for multiple classes being sold, and support for monthly subscriptions to all classes from an instructor.


Wow, fascinating how important branding is with payment collection. I wonder if the same is true for other kinds of small businesses outside of the fitness vertical.


I didn't think you could use Gumroad for selling "services"?


this is a really inspiring little payment processor


I work ~4 hours a week making aircraft add-ons for X-Plane, releasing one product every 3 months, net profit ~$5k a month total.

It's fairly simple: 1) Commission Russian 3D artist to make model of aircraft -$1000 2) Commission Audio Engineer to do sound - $500 3) Tweak model to work well with simulator + animation - 12 hours 4) Paint model in Substance - 12 hours 5) Set up flight model in X-Plane's "Plane Maker" - 8 hours 6) Coding - 12 hours 7) Misc loose ends & testing - 12 hours

I don't talk about it because I don't want too much competition figuring out what an easy way this is to make money.


I LOVE little niches like this. Good job man.


Sorry, I don’t quite understand. XP is a flight simulator. You outsource a 3D model of a plane and the relevant audio. Then you code and paint the plane in the application, which is then sold?

How can you be reassured that the outsourcers won’t steal your idea?

This is interesting and sounds like it could be applied to game plugins in general.


I don't suppose you worked at a large digital agency in the Northern Quarter in Manchester for a while before leaving for the BBC did you? I think I might have an inkling who you are if so, the hobbies and professions line up with what I assume is a manipulation of the name Steve as a username!


It's not a zero-sum game, and it doesn't easy at all :)


*sound


So cool. How do you even think of an idea like this?


Before I started out I was already a pilot, X-Plane user, and software developer so the market was obvious; looking at other add-on planes I realized with a little learning I could make better products with less work by limiting scope to simple GA aircraft and working smart.


I got tired of reading bad READMEs and made https://www.makeareadme.com/ on a whim. Over the past few years, it has climbed up the Google search rankings. It's usually in the top three hits for "readme" now.

I serve developer-focused ads with CodeFund (and Carbon as a backup when CodeFund doesn't have an ad available). I get about $45 in revenue per month. Hosting costs are $0 because it's just a static site served from Netlify, so the only cost is the domain.

I never intended to make any money off of it, and I care much more that it's hopefully a helpful resource for some people. But it is nice to get a little bit of passive income.


Ah, my SEO nemesis!

Really, though, your site is awesome. I just emailed you about sponsoring it, if you're interested :)


Haha thanks! As soon as I read the first line of your comment, I knew you must be from ReadMe.


How many visitors do you have per month?


About 37,000 per month, according to Google Analytics. The actual number is probably quite a bit higher, since I assume programmers use ad blockers at a high rate.


Curious, never used Netlify but I'd assume they provide server based analytics?


They do[1], but it costs $9 per site per month.

[1]: https://www.netlify.com/products/analytics/


The closest thing I've had to that is my side project Taaalk (https://taaalk.co) - it's a platform for online interviews.

After the success of one of our interviews on HN [1], someone contacted me and suggest that I interview a highly successful value investor. We had a great 'Taaalk' [2] and he then put me in touch with an investing friend of his in London who runs a fund. We met for lunch and he taught me all about how he invests in shares, it was very straight forward, so I started following his guidance and made 50% on my money last year [nothing magical, just solid and practical value investing advice] - meaning I could take the year off and do a masters in Psychology of Mental Health - which is (slowly) helping change my career into a direction I love.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9300017)[the link to our site wont work, to see the interview go here: https://taaalk.co/t/how-to-think-about-chess]

[2] https://taaalk.co/t/value-investing

P.S. Anyone can make their own interview, so if you have a friend you think should be interviewed - please keep Taaalk in mind :)


Kind of curious if you had problems with the triple a's in the name?


Not really no. It's all goood :)


care to share those tips about investing?


I wouldn't listen to the advice of anyone that thought they could make 50% return in a year just based on "nothing magical, just solid and practical value investing advice".

They're either too naive to realise it was luck, or trying to scam you.


50% investment return in a year sounds like just running a business?


>about how he invests in shares


https://timeshift.xkozn.co/

This allows you change the start time of a Strava (Garmin, etc.) activity. Useful for WFH situations where you really just want a nice midday run or bike, but don't want to deal with the potential judgement from coworkers who follow you. Might be overthinking things, but oh well :)


My side projects are primarily for myself meaning:

- intellectually stimulating

- excuse to acquire toys (cnc, miter saw, linoblocks and inking supplies, etc)

- can be used a fun projects/learning experiences for my kids.

My project that has generated the most revenues has been selling (in very low quantities) a limited edition wordclock that I designed and build. Except for the Qlock2 all the wordclocks I’ve seen are diy or compete on cost. Mine is (imho) a high quality art piece. And I price it similarLy to Qlock2 but with a totally different aesthetic. My wordclock making started as presents for friends and family then evolved to a workshop I taught at a local maker space. Some discussion on my Show HN a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18950130

Website: finewordclocks.com

Etsy: finewordclocks.etsy.com

I bought a cnc machine for the clocks but most of my cnc work currently is making projects with the kids. Some of them have been refined into other products (Like custom engraved magic marker holders) on my Etsy site.

Lately As a side project to my side project I’ve been making wooden sneeze guard stands. These started by my neighbor who’s a dentist asking me to help him make some. Then I made a few for friends that own a local bakery. Last week I received an order for $1000 worth from an urgent care provider. Feels good to help small businesses reopen post lockdown. Even cooler if they are willing to pay me to help. It also serves as a teaching moment with my kids.

Next is to figure out how to use my maker skills to help BLM movement. I’m still trying to figure that out. Ideas welcome!


I don't know if you'd be willing to say or not but roughly how many of the clocks do you/have you sold? And does the website/online promotion bring you customers or is it more of a word of mouth/knowing the right people effort?

I'm always curious about the limited run, higher-quality, higher-cost items because it's so outside the typical buying habits I see and I imagine would be closer almost to art dealing than the usual business paths we see on HN.


Great question! I’ve sold 5 clocks so far with essentially no marketing effort other than very limited social media posts. The plan was for my spouse to spend about 1 day a week marketing them but for various reasons, we haven’t had the chance to do that. We promote the website, but all of our sales have been through Etsy (which was a surprise for me). 2 sales were people we knew. Hopefully, by years end we’ll be able to spend more time marketing. It would be great to get to 1-2 units a month.

I’ve paid for the cnc I bought and all the other miscellaneous tools so far. I’m not yet accounting for My time spent. But currently that’s still intellectually interesting since I’m learning how to fabricate things better and still experimenting. I’d say that if I sell 2 more I’d be at break even even if including my time.

More importantly my kids 4 and 7 are really excited about making things and are constantly coming up with projects that use the cnc machine (I obviously design the thing and run the machine) but my oldest “helps” me set up and even made a video explaining to their kindergarten class how the machine works. I found that ad a big win.

I also REALY like making various presents for family and friends as I wrote in this blog post: https://www.finewordclocks.com/blog/2019/10/10/what-is-the-m.... To me that is worth a lot and nearly all kids birthday party presents for the last 2 years have been home made and VERY highly received.

I agree this is very different that what most side projects posted here are. Atm I’m not really focused on making money as I am doing something interesting. If I was optimizing on money, I’d have a different day job. Though I’d certainly love to have more money, I don’t need it and my quality of life would likely be much different (worse).


I own a swimming pool and do most of my own maintenance and water chemistry. I created https://poolforthought.com as a place to organize my knowledge. I later realized other people want the same info, and now 7 years later it's made about $20k USD. Ads and affiliate links drive site revenue. I have about 12k email signups of people who want a pool maintenance ebook I'm creating (for a price). I should finish that thing. It's money just sitting there waiting for me to capture.


I use your site!


I don't typically talk about my side projects, but I made a simple Montessori materials website for use while teachers/students have been stuck at home the past few months: https://montessori.tools

It has grown organically to 1,000 visits per day and ~$1,000/month. I have a couple of additional materials in the pipeline. Of course, I've already seen everything from the site shamelessly copied and posted elsewhere. That's fine; I never built it for the money (I built it for my wife, who is a teacher).


This is very cool. I have made also some material for teachers teaching from home https://www.freememorygame.com to build card matching game from your own photos and images. Teachers use it to create games for kids in class.


I guess I am dumb, but I can't understand how to use the tools :( Maybe an instructions page will help


Part of the point of the Montessori method is that there aren't instructions. If you played with these items for hours (like a child) you would start to understand the fundamentals of addition, multiplication and even calculus without deliberately trying.


funny how both responses are exact opposite


The point is that these tools are not standalone. They're meant as an instruction aid for teachers and learning tools for students in the Montessori environment. These people will know immediately how to use them.


funny how both responses are exact opposite


I built an Android app a few years back as a project to learn native Android coding, its been making around $300/month from sales/adsense. Its fun to read and reply to reviews every now and then. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lpellis.se...


Sounds like an Android app would be hard to maintain no? With regard to how many devices/os versions come out... not sure if you bother with that?


I've only had to update it two times to fix bugs with android upgrades,so all in all not too bad. Google did once randomly pulled my app without warning (just an email after they pulled it) for violating some terms, without stating what terms. I couldnt get any useful feedback, eventually I just bumped the version number and rewrote the description, that got met back on the store. But it did make me very weary of building anything their platform.


wow that's messed up pro/cons of centralized app stores


I made a voicemail service for podcasters using WebRTC. It's a widget you add to your website. I spent about 3 weeks building it. So far I have 1 active user paying around $13 a month. Its been great, my user has been telling me how to build the product he wants.

https://www.podbites.fm


This is so cool, that guy basically has a developer(you) working for him, since he's' the only customer.


You should talk to the podcast "make me smart" and probably other APM properties. They are always soliciting listener feedback and they don't have a good story on how to collect it


I had an affiliate marketing website when I was a kid, mostly for fun and learning with some friends, that made some money off backpack recommendations and Amazon links. We didn't feel too good about it after a while so we shut it down. I now hate SEO powered advice blogs.

More recently, I've started making adult videogames, one of which being an interactive fiction that had a lot of traction, but is now on hiatus due to Covid related reasons. One unintended effect of this, is that I learned personally how much both Apple and credit card providers have a chilling effect on freedom of nudity in entertainment - it's appalling.


> how much both Apple and credit card providers have a chilling effect on freedom of nudity in entertainment - it's appalling

As in good or bad? they're blocking/enabling?


Really bad. For example, if you want to have push notifications on an iOS app, there's no way to do it via a website or a PWA. And there's no way of sideloading an app at all for nearly all users. So then the App Store is your only way, which means you must not ever dare have any kind of nudity in your app, since that's an instant rejection during reviews, particularly if you're an indie dev. So I was basically forced to drop iPhone support, to the dismay of some users who would have liked to pay for it (and mine).


Dang wasn't aware, thanks for the info


Blocking.


Interactive fiction in video games? Interesting, any examples?


On the side closer to 'interactive' books there's the Lifeline series of games which were really inspiring to me. Then, on more conventional videogames there's Life is Strange, which at times feels a lot like an interactive movie where you can optionally go much more in depth by interacting with characters and objects if you want to get more of the story.

On the indiest side, there's an /interactivefiction subreddit as well.


how did you manage the difficulty with payment processing? are you still able to put up ads (Google AdSense?)


No ads, basically sold early access to builds via Patreon, and we were investigating ways to allow play by paying with cryptocurrencies and possibly PayPal but never got as far as setting that up before having to pause. Long term there are plans of selling PC versions on Steam, itch.io, and other platforms once complete.


Not now, but I did. Back in the 00s I blogged a lot and had AdSense on my there. I'd done a quick review of a popular route planner in the UK (back when Google Maps hadn't taken over) and thought little of it until it started making hundreds of dollars per day. So then I did a quick review of several other popular route planners in the UK..

For about 18 months, I was making $2-10k a month from people typing in "whatever route planner", reaching my blog post, then clicking straight out to the real planner on the AdSense unit. It died off after a while as the real route planners improved their SEO but it paid for my wedding and more besides, so I couldn't complain :-)


https://sendnoodz.io | Spam your friends with MMS of noodles

Strangely not because of the content, rather because there are lots of inconsistencies/imperfections in the design and it doesn't make enough to justify fixing them.


This seems like the kind of thing that could go viral on Twitter or Instagram. Maybe advertise there.


This is great! Definitely has the potential to go viral..! Kinda like the guy sending confetti as hate-gifts.


are you sure this is legal? i was under the impression that SMS bombing violates the telephone consumer protection act in the US.


I created an opensource tool to generate performance reports based on Github pull requests (think gitprime, codeclimate, gitclear).

I've made $250 in a single year on a single consultation.

The first iteration was a service that listened to build and repository actions. I switched it up to generate static reports. It queries github at a point in time for raw PR data. Then it generates a basic PR report based on that data. It generates CSV so visualization falls on the end user :p

- https://github.com/ImpactInsights/valuestream

- https://medium.com/valuestream-by-operational-analytics-inc/...


I built a Chrome extension that checks websites for SEO, speed and security best practices:

https://www.checkbot.io/

Most of the growth has been organic but I post it in forums when it seems relevant. I haven't had much luck with ads but writing articles has been worthwhile.


There was one guy refer about your checkbot somewhere on this thread and I installed. Will start using it very soon :)


Thanks! Let me know if you've got any questions or you need tips on how to fix any of the problems it finds.


I'm a paid user. I like it but it's got some quirks that sort of drive me towards screaming frog


I don't talk about my side projects at work hours, even if someone asks.

However, I built Pixmap for Android to learn Android dev. It makes a couple dollars a month... :)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.winricklab...

I built FastComments as a tool for myself, but it's starting to gather bigger and bigger customers.

https://FastComments.com


Dogfooding watch.ly as well. Very nice!

Consider some sort of tag for that, by the way, even if small.

I'm looking into one, and I had to dig into the source to find out which one you were using!

...and even then, I had to dig back in to find the URL, because your search ranking is nonexistent from my perspective.

Your services are inspiring as hell, from a minimalism/productivity perspective!


Thank you!! If you wanna try out watch.ly I can set you up. You can build the chat bot using a UI now. And yes - I didn't really market watch.ly yet even though I paid thousands for that domain. I switched to FastComments as a fun tool and then people started paying for it... :)

I love to build fast software! It's so hard to get that to be a high priority in a day job at most companies (in my experience).


FastComments is really cool looking and so simple (it reminds me of brutalist web design).

Could you explain a little on how you do limiting of page loads? I've been trying to add this kind of functionality to my own projects but can't think of a way to track it without storing in a db which seems like a bottleneck process if every page load is a write


Store an object representing the namespace (customer+month) and use whatever your DB's increment operator is to increment the count for that month. Keep a map, or use an LRU cache, to check the DB periodically to see who has gone past their limit. You can also fire off this write to the DB asynchronously since you don't care that much if it fails and you don't want to create back pressure in your application.

For example an object like {tenant, month, year, count}. Then you can reuse this for reporting etc which is what I do. We also track other metrics per customer + month like commenter sign ups, votes, etc.

Also - I'm open to new opportunities right now if anyone's interested in hiring me. :)


Thank you. this is very useful and will certainly work for my use case.


I'm guessing they're using watch.ly. I've never heard of the service but it's on the header of the fastcomments blog. Watch.ly mentions a service that will "add realtime hit counters to my products."


Watch.ly is like mixpanel + instabot. I just haven't polished it enough to market it...

FastComments doesn't depend on Watch.ly - it's just there for some UI stuff. Also, Watch.ly sends me a daily email saying what pages (or app screens on native apps) were visited most, for how long, etc, so we can see daily if all the sudden people stop spending time on an important page.

It also gives me a realtime traffic graph. I can see people going from one page, to another, and where they drop off.

Like four months of work there...


My astrology charts app for android [1] brings me about 5€/month. I earned more by doing some consulting with the technology I use for this app (Pybridge [2]) than with the app itself.

My web app [3] earned only 50€ since 2016. My other projects (ex: mockrest.com [4]) don’t make me any money at all. I have to use other strategy.. :/

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flatangle....

[2] https://github.com/joaoventura/pybridge

[3] http://elements.flatangle.com/

[4] http://mockrest.com/


I built https://rootshirechess.glitch.me/ for my kids to play chess with cousins and grandparents during the epidemic. I put “buy me a coffee” on and posted a couple places about it. Made ~24$ on it ;)


Nice to see this available for chess. I built something just like this but for rummikub. Same basic idea... jitsi conference embedded in a web page.


I started up a botanical brewery. We make non alcoholic drinks from medicinal mushrooms and we’re about three weeks away from launching our chaga based drink. We were supposed to launch in March, but COVID threw a spanner into the works. You can check it here: https://borealbrewing.ca

Putting out a real product has been an insane amount of work, from getting the brand designed to finding somebody to actually help with production, but it’s been a fantastic learning experience. I’m really hoping that we’ll get the product out with no further delays, as it’s full of, amongst other good things, antioxidants which are great immune boosters.


First off, it looks like you've really worked hard at this, and it looks really interesting. It's something that I would try if I saw it in a store. I would expect to find it at any of the health food stores locally.

I mean the following constructively:

Why the focus on ditching alcohol? It's a big turn-off and I'm not even a regular drinker.

Seems like the wrong messaging immediately.

Sell your product on its own merit, not with an up-front negative message that judges people's alcohol intake.


I stopped drinking alcohol three years ago because, as I was getting older, it wasn't working for me anymore. Two or three beers and I would feel it the next day. The drink was born out of the desire to create an alternative to alcoholic drinks. Also, there is a big movement away from alcohol right now, with people looking for alternatives and I was hoping to tap into this. But, looking at the site with a fresh eye, I think you're making a good point. Perhaps it comes across as a little judgy.

Thanks for pointing this out, I'll do some thinking.


Non and low alcohol is a massively growing market - it's not about judgement, but about creating an adult drink that doesn't have alcohol. Whether that's for people on medication, designated drivers, recovers, or those who just want something else.

It's very common to market these sorts of drinks as non/low alcohol as that's part of the appeal.


Very true, I'm a frequent person to Kava/Kratom bars where I live and there are several of them with lots of regular clients so non-alcoholic beverages seem to be a good market.


I made around 2 k€ with a celebrity pics website, in the late 90s, just before the explosion of the internet bubble.

I misspelled the celeb's name and my site was the 3rd result on Altavista when other people made the same spelling error. I put a counter and saw a lot of visits, so I added some banner ads.

A few weeks later I got a nice paper check that I converted from French Francs to Belgian Francs in the bank. It was before the EUR!

It was nice to have some pocket money, but I've always been ashamed of this site. 20 years later, I'm starting to think that it was kind of cool... It's still on archive.org!


http://askjud.com — I made it when I was 15. It’s pretty terrible, but has made $30k+ over its lifetime.


Lots of fun was had on this site back in the day. Thanks for making it.


from what exactly? the ads? how long is lifetime? $30k's nothing to scoff at!


Yep, the ads. Monetized for maybe 10 years. Some years are much higher $$$ than others.

Search YouTube for askjud to see how it works. It’s been the subject of a few viral videos.


I built a small library for synchronizing subtitles with video (https://github.com/smacke/ffsubsync) at a hackathon, and a couple of users appreciate it enough to sponsor me for $11 / month, which comes to $22 / month after Github matches contributions :)


So, if i have a video in VLC player and subtitles arent syncing, i can use your service?


Like everyone here, I get ideas for side projects that might be profitable. At some point, I started looking at the likelihood of success, the time I'd invest, and how much I'd make. The answer is almost always that I'm better off dedicating the time to my day job, or even just relaxing so I'm better at my job.

That said, I get it. You get some financial freedom, you get to explore a project that interests you for you, you get to learn something new, and this is from the perspective of someone who's got a job he's happy with.


There's also that many people have pretty fixed salary and evolution in their company.

I won't make more money by dedicating more time or energy at my day job. It's fixed.


I'm in the same boat in that my next big increase will be from a promotion, but it's the time and energy that will make that happen. Another commenter was talking about a review site where they'd stay up all night watching infomercials to get a list of products to review, and then post the reviews on a site with ads. I respect the drive, but not getting a full night's sleep would definitely impact my performance at my day job.


In my experience, past a minimum acceptable performance level, networking matters a lot more for promotions than any additional job performance. And that minimum performance is fairly low.


You may be underestimating the make your own luck part of the equation.


I've probably been promoting it too much lately, especially on here.

I'll pass on this one, but just wanted to say thank you to everyone who shares a project. It really does help others to see what is possible.

Sidequestion: Does anyone have any recommendations on simple guides to SEO? I'm realizing the power of search traffic to bring in visitors to sideprojects.


Shameless plug: I run a newsletter that teaches developers about blogging and SEO.

You can sign up for a 7-day challenge to publish one excellent, SEO-optimized blog post:

http://bloggingfordevs.com/

(Oh, and if I need to qualify myself, I grew traffic on one of my side projects (a content website) to over 100k per month primarily via SEO)

---

In terms of sources for SEO information and just getting started, I'd check out Brian Dean's guide (I haven't read through it thoroughly myself, but he's very known in the SEO world):

https://backlinko.com/seo-this-year

Another useful way of looking at this is to see the factors Google actually use to rank your content:

https://backlinko.com/hub/seo/ranking-factors

The Ahrefs blog (a tool for doing keyword research and competitor analysis) is also chock full of resources:

https://ahrefs.com/blog/

SEO changes all the time, I'd also recommend plugging into some communities or following SEO professionals on Twitter. Barry Schwartz is a great example of this:

https://twitter.com/rustybrick

These are just a few things off the top of my head.


> Sidequestion: Does anyone have any recommendations on simple guides to SEO?

I run a Chrome extension that will crawl your site and give on-page/technical SEO suggestions: https://www.checkbot.io/.

The SEO best practices it checks for are explained + justified in a simple fashion here: https://www.checkbot.io/guide/seo/

I know a lot of developers are skeptical about SEO advice (e.g. keyword density stuff, experiments that try to reverse engineer how Google does ranking), but the rules from the guide above are linked to things Google have directly recommended. Most on-page SEO best practices align with what would benefit a regular user also.


> Most on-page SEO best practices align with what would benefit a regular user also.

Because good SEO is indistinguishable from good UX. :)

The best SEO advice you can give someone is "make the page easy for a blind person to read".

Just doing that one thing will get you about 99% of the way there.


> The best SEO advice you can give someone is "make the page easy for a blind person to read".

Yep, makes sense when you consider most search bots "see" webpages in the same way a screen reader will. Anything that helps a screen reader understand the content of a page better is going to help a search bot and vice versa - they're both bots. :)


Agree 100%, + fresh content


Checkout moz! Very straightforward


Thank you! I will check it out.


Just want to say, thank you for Opps Daily :) I thoroughly enjoyed reading the opportunities every day. Was sad to see it get closed.


My work place (startup) uses Google Spreadsheets as our weekly metrics dashboard. I'm the person who has run a ruby script to generate the data and copy them into the spreadsheet. I finally got around to building a simple API that would allow me to send it directly to the spreadsheet. Now tthe data gets updated automatically with Cron.

Its a very narrow use case, maybe others will find it useful. I'm no designer. Would love some feedback.

https://sheetsapi.co/


Yes, I have. 3000€ since the ads are there. Also from 6, 7 years ago, I was learning to code.

https://random.country/


I do this kind of browsing on Wikipedia, but totally random is kind of fun. I spotted a character encoding error, visible on Bangladesh, I think UTF-8 may be being interpreted as Latin-1? "Chicken’s Neck"


Thanks, will check it.


I really like the simplicity and whimsical usefulness of this one. Good job


I wonder if it is possible to make a site like this today and monetize it with Adsense. Doesn't Adsense reject thin content sites?


Well I tried with similar site year ago and Google rejected it. So I think answer is probably not possible.


did you try other display ad networks?


No, never thought about it. But good point, let me check.


did you hand-code all the country details?


Easy A - https://easy-a.net/

Shows the grade distributions per class and if you add in your prior coursework we can predict the workload and grades per class.

Haven’t updated it in 5 years (recently updated the data). Still pulls in slightly more than it costs to host with thousands of students adding grades a year. Probably a thousand a year.

Currently supports UIUC, UT-Austin, university of Washington and quite a few others.

I don’t really talk about it because it was built for a few friends over a weekend right before I left school. The advisors for CS at UIUC we’re always swamped so I figured I’d make a basic one with some data science. Turns out everyone liked it and participated in making it way better


You get the data behind grades from students themselves?


I wrote a game engine to learn more about how they work and it ended up evolving into "Portal meets Doom" iOS game (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gate-escape/id1449377239)

I've talked a little about the technical details, but not much of the game itself. It makes about $40/month - not exactly motivating money. It's been very difficult to market so I have lost most motivation to acquire more users.

I dream to open source the level editor and allow community made maps, but I can't really judge the demand for such a large feature investment.


I started a podcast to talk with folks about their tech stack choices. It's at https://runninginproduction.com/.

Since October 2019 it's made $200 in the form of 1 episode having a sponsor.

As a side topic, I would be very happy to have anyone on who wants to talk about their tech stack for their side projects.


I like the clean buttons for all the podcast platforms but I must admit I searched through your website for like 5 minutes before I saw them because I searched for the logos of the platforms.

Subscribed in pocket casts and will tune in later!


Thanks. I tried to go with the platform's primary color. It's slim pickings in terms of size to fit icons in the buttons but maybe I can relocate them above that area to get a bit of extra room.


My side project at the moment is day/swing trading. I started sometime in early March when I pulled my money out from the stock market and cashed in on some capital gains. Things went to hell shortly after that but I was safe waiting in cash waiting to buy back in.

Because I was sitting on about 220k in cash I decided to look into other ways to put my money to use. I realized I could probably buy massive positions in large cap stocks and scalp small 20 to 50 cents moves that happen all the time and make about $100-$300 on each trade fairly quickly.

What has also helped kicked this off for me was 0 commissions on trades. Before I would have to pay like 7 bucks per trade and even though I can still profit it’s amazing how that small cost each time created resistance in my mind.

Since March, I’ve had $12540 in winning trades and -$4476 in losses, for a total profit of $8063.77, however, probably like 90% of that has been made in the past month alone since I started out cautiously with small trades to see how my win/loss ratio was, and in the past week alone I made a $2620 profit. I am now making bigger trades with $100k+ size positions. On top of that, I’ve already reinvested my $220k cash into long term holdings so I borrow that $100k from my broker (I only have to pay interest if I hold overnight which I never do), this gives me the best of both worlds.

To be honest it all seems too easy. If I just make about $400 dollars profit a day, which is like maybe 2 or 3 successful trades, 5 days a week, that’s $2000k a week, about $96k a year, for something that only takes an hour of my time (I only focus on the first hour the market opens)

For now, I just keep reinvesting these profits into buying more stocks and as my account builds more capital I’ll feel comfortable gradually increasing my position size for day trades to make either quicker more successful trades off of smaller spreads or more profitable ones with the same size spread. We’ll see.

I don’t talk about this because no one would believe it and all the advice I find out there is stuff like “it works until it doesn’t” or “you’ll lose it all...” etc. Fuck it. When I die put my money in the grave.


would you be willing to discuss your strategy for evaluating trades/picking stocks? this is something I've been trying to get into, mostly through the options market but haven't been able to come up with a solid strategy for picking stocks


I trade very few stocks, most of the FAANG types.

For example, on Friday I made good money on FB with several 50 cent moves. I buy 500 shares at a time, so a profit target of about $250.

I would use a sequential order to buy at a certain entry point and then it immediately submits a sell order for 50 cents higher when it fills.

My strategy is basically the poor man’s HFT.

The key is picking a good entry point. I generally watch the price action for a bit and try to spot where there’s good support and the price keeps bouncing off of. I then set my orders for that price and get as many wins as I can.

No need to take my word for it, with commission free brokers you can try it out with a single share and see how you do. Avoid paper trading IMO except for learning your trading platform UI. The fills are not realistic.

Also, avoid options. They’re garbage, low liquidity and everything is usually priced in making it more difficult to make profits. If you want to trade with leverage just throw down money in your account and use the margin power your broker gives you. In theory I can trade with up to $500k in borrowed money but I stick to about $110k or so to keep about 77% equity in my account at all times.

One thing I haven’t mastered is how to set useful stop losses. There’s time the price dips and I sell too early but if I had waiting maybe 30 minutes for things to calm down I would have made profit. Not sure what to do, I just use my best judgement. And at the end of the day, worst case I have to hold for a while at least I’m holding stock in a decent company like FB and not some worthless penny stock. That’s why I maintain the 77% equity, to avoid margin calls.


thanks so much for divulging details about your strategy!

I was thinking about trading options since your losses are capped, it seems like your strategy of trading quality stocks caps your losses


Your losses may be capped but you have to risk a lot more money more often with options to make decent profit. No thanks.


how did you accumulate 220k cash?!


Working in tech for years and saving up, along with investment returns.


I built https://markdownbin.com/ because a friend was complaining something like this doesn't exist.

Nobody uses it and probably that's why it doesn't exist.


I created https://markdownshare.com/ for the same purpose; but due to abuse I've retired it.

Shame really, because I liked the service and it was quick/simple to build.


It's funny how building the functionality can take a couple hours but human proofing it is a never ending task


It's neat, but probably needs a bit more features for it to be more useful than pastebin.


Well, there's StackEdit [1], and we use it (at work, for an end-of-sprint automated list of finished stuff for the demo)

[1]: https://stackedit.io/


There is https://txti.es/ . Additionally, GitHub Gists will render markdown.


I made a tool to detect which user account can be safely remove from PagerDuty. It also provide simple weekly report emails. I got a few subscribers by doing nothing else that putting it on the PagerDuty marketplace.

https://www.pagerinsights.com/


Very cool. I get the sense that with these kinds of Micro-SaaS type products, it's really important to leverage marketplaces. I've seen this with Shopify and AWS but I must admit, I wasn't even aware PagerDuty had a marketplace. Have you put your product into any other marketplaces besides PagerDuty?


I copied an app from the App Store. Their business model was free desktop application but $20 for the iOS client and I really wanted it so I made a 'clean-room' implementation with CloudKit and charged $0.99 for a one-off cross platform sale.

Bit brazen, but the idea isn't entirely unique.

Edit: P.s email me at adam@adamfallon.com if you would like a promo code to get the app for free :).

* https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nitronotes/id1502080216


Simplicity. I love it when < 1MB apps provide utility.


Unfortunately can't take credit on iOS here - the same app is 1.4mb on iOS - I assume because it isn't statically linking some part of the CloudKit syncing framework on macOS whereas it does on iOS? Or maybe SwiftUI framework is dynamic on macOS due to Catalyst - not really sure.


That's still way smaller than your average iOS app.


What kind of revenue did you get from it?


Close to $2k with very minimal self-promo across a few sites. I mostly made it for me.


I launched my project a few weeks ago. It’s called Newsy (https://www.newsy.co)

I got tired of many of my un-used domain names and this was the best way for me to make use of them without spending much time on them.


Partner and I built a service to do sales attribution and commissions, ingesting data from Shopify / WooCommerce / etc. Works great for any sort of sales organization w hierarchy, but we’ve had success with network marketing / direct sales.

Spending nights and weekends, we scaled enough that we banked about $67k on the side in the first 8 months and then took used that as seed to go full time. 3 years later we’re still at it with a decent team and a ton of fun and cool tech


I created an AWS poster, like the periodic table but for services:

https://moca.computingarchitectures.com/en/~hello-world/

it was something to do after i left AWS, and also a way to test a model for computing i wanted to build.

Unfortunately with Covid 19 few people need a poster for their office at the moment, so focusing on tooling etc using the underlying model.


I build websites and manage them for cash-flow (and have been doing this for a decade). Started with SAAS affiliate sites and moved onto a more ambitious vision of cleaning up content categories on Google that are loaded with bad advice. (So build a better site that replaces self-serving junk and amateur nut-job sites with real content)

My latest project (un-monetized) is an attempt to raise the bar in the business opportunities vertical; I aim to research and lay out (in non-promotional terms) paths to earning a living wage in the gig economy. There's a lot of bad advice pushing courses / e-books / etc with a high rate of failure. Most of these gig economy roles are fairly simple businesses to manage; the idea is if you can instill some self-employment literacy, you can even the odds for new freelancers and side hustlers.

I'm working on a publishing model which delivers legitimate advice with a decent chance of success (for the reader) and a fair return for the publisher. https://highestpayinggigs.com/


Started making a high-quality version of a niche but expensive board game in Tabletop Simulator, and the IP owner contacted me and offered a 50/50 split if I want to try and monetize it. Looks like our best option at this point is Patreon, but assuming at least one person donates then this will be the first dollar I ever make on a side project.


Started making videos on YouTube of topics that I lookup over and over or that I would like to learn more. I prefer not to monetize my videos with YouTube ads but I've already been contracted by several major software companies to make videos for them.

Definitely not passive income but I enjoy it as a different work from normal programming where I can explore stuff I am interested or even just practice talking through interview questions out loud.

It's interesting to see which videos get traction. My most viewed video (https://youtu.be/8eyfmp7dtYk) is one that I just made on a whim, like many of my videos, and has a bad like/dislike ratio but I've gotten constructive feedback on it in case I decide to redo it.

I've learned a ton from having this channel and have made about $2k from contracting a handful of videos so far this year.


I made a web-based graphing calculator (http://fooplot.com) in 2007 that runs on ad revenue and is still delivering about 5X its hosting costs. It only makes enough profit for about a few dinners a month so nothing I can live off of but hey I'll take anything more than $0. It used to make an order of magnitude more back when I had 250K MAU and that was a meaningful addition to my meager PhD salary. But times have changed and (a) people started using mobile apps to graph functions and (b) AdSense somehow decreased the CPC I was getting and I then stopped putting effort into it.

You can put arbitrary equations into the URL, e.g.

http://fooplot.com/1+sin(x)/2


Kind of curious how that works, the url does not match what you land on so I'm guessing something intercepts it but it outputs a unique url? It's not just urlencode anyway.

Are they precomputed to save resources or something? Pretty neat


Oh it's just a base64-encoded JSON that contains other parameters like the view limits and such. You can base64 decode itself and see.


Oh yeah that's neat, what does the type: 0 mean?

I guess as an aside did you write the plotting part or used some library?


I wrote the whole thing from ground up. I don't think I remember seeing any libraries back then. It actually initially used 1-pixel DIVs, then SVG, then later changed to canvas.

type:0 just means a regular y=f(x) function


wow well that's really impressive, the 1px divs sounds interesting


I have a twitter bot, that I've monetized through the sale of T-Shirts and I'm now working on a YouTube channel. Generates enough revenue to pay the rent so that's cool.

https://twitter.com/schumannbot


For a while I wrote a bot that would scrape ebay for textbooks and send me an email when it found a textbook that I could buy and resell to a third party (chegg, amazon, whoever) and make more than $10. At one point I was buying like 5 textbooks a day, many of them I sold for $20-$30 more than I purchased them for. And I had it all automated to the point where if the all the parameters were met the code would actually buy the item for me (although most of the books were just emailed to me for me to review). I stopped doing it because it got pretty stressful for me, and became a bit of a distraction from my regular job. I was going to try to bring in my 16 year old brother to manage it, but he didn't have the hustle in him...


I've tried to make a buy-script for amazon and failed. Now you've got me wanting to try on eBay.

I did a similar thing to what you're saying, buying (not textbooks) on amazon, selling elsewhere.


I run a send free text app that lets users watch ads to send sms, I rarely need to update and provide customer support and it makes 60$/month from ads+iap. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pseudozach...

And then another app that converts play store balance to 1/2 bitcoin but I actually like to talk about this one, if I can find anyone interested https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pseudozach...


> watch ads to send sms

hmm... interesting though, it does work haha

that's so interesting, I mean I remember when I didn't have a phone, not even a burner, sometimes you have to deal with those "get code texted" and use those online sites that allow free sms... interesting being able to make that stuff now vs. using them


You can also receive texts on that one but it's just one virtual number shared by everyone so I doubt it will work for any activation codes...


Generally when I want to learn something new I'll build a new side project (or re-build an existing one) to support the learning process. This time I wanted to include my partner in the project so I built something that would require some manual moderation of content.

I built a 'hookup' website and have monetized it with a single affiliate offer/link.

It's made a few thousand in the last 18 months or so, with almost no promotion (posted something about it on reddit once).

Like someone else in this post commented, the way that the 'adult' industry is pushed out of the banking/credit card world makes it pretty tough to monetize sites of this nature.


I was curious about this, I suppose if you're taking direct payments vs. say adsense, if you separate your name from the business. So if someone tried to track who ads belong to, wouldn't find the owner/operator of the site. Maybe that's just standard practice. I've been thinking about that myself eg. privately registering domains and somehow not having my name tied to ssl certs, etc...


Even adsense is tough with adult content sites (last I checked, which was probably over a decade ago).

Specific affiliate offers that are relevent to the audience are far more profitable.


Hmm that's a good idea(affiliate offers)


how did you manage the difficulty with payment processing? are you still able to put up ads (Google AdSense?)


I don't accept payments of any sort - the entire site is free. No premium options, no payment details.


I recently built https://grapiture.com An API for sending charts / panels to Slack.

Still have a bunch of features in the works but hoping it will make some money eventually.


I created a HTTP request scheduler that allow people to setup rule based notifications: https://ihook.us. Not making money yet, all free plan users right now :)


For me the font on your landing page doesn't load because of a CORS issue, thought i'd let you know!


wow, thank you so much for spending time to post the issue, really appreciate it! I thought this issue had been resolved months back by adding CORS rules on the CDN (S3). I wonder the error is due to the updated policy somewhat not pushed to some edge. Just tried to push the policy again and hope that helps.


I'm the only dev behind qr-tools, a python library to work with QR codes, and QtQR a GUI that uses the lib and let's you create and different types of QR codes and decode QR codes easily from images, the web or your webcam. Both projects are OpenSource and mainly targeted to Ubuntu users. I haven't been actively developing them, just some maintenance. They seem to have a pretty good use base but is hard to tell with this type of projects. I've never talk about it because is not a usual conversation topic, QR codes are not use that much where I'm from and less on the desktop.


I’ve been doing a lot of eBay reselling and it’s been quite profitable despite minimal effort. Forces me away from the computer so that’s a plus. I also like shopping and spending money so it fills that need while making money.

Guess that counts as a side project? I’ve got some scripts to manage my eBay store like auto relisting to help boost the items once the fall off of the eBay algorithm. Been thinking about packaging the scripts up as a product but I don’t really want to support it.


I started selling clothes through print-on -demand platforms. Didn't earn much yet, but didn't put much effort into it either. I even got featured on the Modsly platform blog as a success story which is kind of cool :)

https://blog.modsly.com/how-i-made-my-first-sale-after-2-day...


I started Yomi.ai just two months ago. It made a few hundred dollars so far. I am trying to develop the number one resource for Japanese language learners who want to improve their reading skills.

My ideal customer is has a good command of the English language and is trying to pass the Japanese Language Proficiency Test on the level N1 or N2.

Since it's such a niche, I don't talk too much about it.


I started many unsuccessful side projects, making me almost no or no money at all. The latest one (WunderFlix) is different though. It starts making a modest amount of money. But since I never made any money with the other projects I still don't like to talk about it.

But, now that you've asked... I always wanted to have an app that can help me creating short films of my kids with my iPhone. I searched the App Store and found many, but they were all so complicated to use. I wanted simplicity. After all, I have kids, and thus no time to fiddle around with a complicated and long process to create the films. Since I could not find the app I was looking for, I decided to create it myself :-)

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/wunderflix/id1484705777

[2] https://www.wunderflix.com


Hey that's cool! Btw, I see the developer is listed as WunderFlix GmbH. You really registered a company just for side project, does that mean it makes enough money to justify the costs of a proper company?


I started building Lanes (https://lanes.io) in 2016 as a way to learn how to code. Don't talk about it because it's way overdue for an update.

But it plods along, earning enough to cover the bills for my second project, Simplescraper (https://simplescraper.io).

With Wunderlist shut down this year it was the perfect time to relaunch Lanes 2.0 to try capture some of those task-manager migrants. But if there's a single thing building side-projects has taught me it's that if you try and chase two rabbits, you'll catch neither.


Nice. Weird question but where did you get the privacy policy from? Is it a free one?


lanes.io has a firebase error for me on Safari 13.1

> FirebaseError: Messaging: This browser doesn't support the API's required to use the firebase SDK. (messaging/unsupported-browser).


Case in point! Thanks, I'll dust off the project folder and get on this soon.


not even safari 12.1


simple scraper is cool - I had that same idea and you beat me to it!


Neural net for soft porn (tasteful nudes). Android app, 3 years old:

http://driftwheeler.com

More than 800 users per day, on average. Continuously growing user base. Profit through Met-Art affiliation.


Why is it a native app and not PWA / Website ? I couldn't install it.


i've made $20 off of https://apps.apple.com/us/app/simple-and-sinister/id15132753... in the last 3 weeks. sales plummeted though for some reason and just stopped after release. going free for now until i release some new features that will be in-app purchase upgrades.

this is the first time i've actually made something to solve my problem though. i started using kettlebells due to covid lockdowns, etc, and thought the apps out there were way too bloated and shitty.


I always make side projects to learn new things and they periodically make me a small amount of money.

From most recent to oldest:

Https://brand-kit.net

Have not made money yet but just launched last month. Basically it is starter business branding at a very affordable price wrapped into a service.

Https://scrape.email

Launched at the beginning of the year and making around 100/month now. I used common crawl to index emails across the web monthly making it easy to find all emails for a given website.

Https://appdoctor.io

My most ambitious project from 2 years ago. Appdoctor is an app monitoring platform with automated tests, status page and a bunch of extra stuff..makes around 150/m now.


That’s really interesting. We do something similar for clients that don’t have access to the budget needed to hire the agency proper. If I may make one comment, I thought there were too many colour choices. I work with designers everyday and even I got confused.


Where do you host your sites. Are they on cloud?


DigitalOcean managed kubernetes


Hi, When saying a project "you'd not talk about" and then talking about it - it's kind of taking the point out of it :-) But I guess I understand what you mean. I have created https://yabs.io just for me and let other people use it for free for now. It is a copy of del.icio.us for saving bookmarks with tags and then searching them easily. I have also created https://www.gematrix.org for calculating Gematria values of words and phrases.


During corona quarantine a built a web tool to support the Scrum Retrospective Session for (distributed) Scrum Teams. I use it with my team, even though we are back in the office again: https://retrospective.scrum-tips.com/

For now, it is completely free, not even registration required. I am thinking of making a paid professional version, as I see that it is useful and used by other teams despite the lack of marketing. But still, need to work on better marketing as well as adding more features...


I created a series to help me learn about systems. I didn't tell anyone I knew I was working on this and just posted on HN (thanks for the support!) that first year. I put a paid option that I hid on a secondary page. Revenue is very small (in the hundreds) but soon I'll focus on building it into a business. Now that I talk about it with people, around 90% have encouraged me to monetize, but I am figuring out how. https://unintendedconsequenc.es/


We have been building on the side for quite some time a image enlarge/upscale service based on convolutional neural networks algorithms:

https://deep-image.ai

More details about the technology side:

https://teonite.com/blog/deep-image-thanks-to-machine-learni...

Now we’ve just launched payments - so we have to see some time about the results.


Interesting, do you need gpu compute on the backend?


Yes - all AI/ML is done on Nvidia GPU


Interesting. How much work to port it to AMD?


Won't be a customer for this product...we have three German Shepherds..too much work...and they will swallow them up in a microsecond.

I will, however, give you an idea for another product. Don't know if it has an audience, but it is along the lines of what you are doing.

When large dogs are small you can buy pre-made treats and they'll spend a good amount of time working on them. Past a certain age/size they'll instantly crack them into pieces and it's the end of the story.

It would be interesting to have healthy protein-based edible treats of different sizes (2 to 12 inches?) that are hard or resilient enough to keep a dog busy for a while while they grind away while providing nutritional treat.

One of the options for dogs like ours seems to be to buy cooked bones like this one:

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/good-lovin-...

They will work on something like this for days. The problem is that they are not really nutritious and they will eventually fracture them and they will splinter. The dogs won't get hurt but it's always of concern having bone fragments on the floor. Also, I don't think you necessarily need something that will last weeks. If it's good for a day or a few days (depending on cost) it's probably OK.

There's are other options in the market:

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/dog/dog-tre...

Read the ingredients and think about whether or not dogs evolved to eat this stuff. I don't think so. They can get sick and have intestinal problems from these kinds of treats.

Also, read some of the comments on that particular product for a view into what I am generally talking about.

Good luck.


I hadn't thought of it before, but when our horses get their feet trimmed, the dogs (a 100lb Shepherd and a smaller Shepherd mix) love to gnaw on the trimmings. Hoof trimmings are basically really thick fingernails.

They'll gnaw on them for hours. Wonder if there would be a market for it.


Dogs will eat anything. One of my GSD's almost died after eating about a third of a blanket. His xray looked down-right scary, with this ball in his stomach. We were very close to having to have surgery to cut him open to remove it (which would have been very dangerous and very expensive). Somehow he managed to vomit the thing out in large chunks. We all dodged a bullet on that one.

So, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that they would eat horse hoof trimmings.

If you were to productize something like that you'd have to make sure you run through some testing to ensure dogs won't be harmed. The product liability element in products that people and pets eat should not be ignored, particularly in a litigious society like the US.


I made Metaset (https://metaset.io) to quickly do visual analysis on data sets. Started from my own needs for a project that spit out large CSV files. Excel or Tableau were too cumbersome and I didn't bother doing pandas and matplotlib.

Later I found someone with a similar need but for Postgres databases. It's been pulling in a decent side income.

I am embarrassed by the amateur UI. There is so much I want to do around "smart" visualization, but haven't had time.


https://pikaso.me – Lets you get a clutter-free screenshot of any tweet. (Also has browser extensions for Chrome and Firefox)


I made a logo game for iOS (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-logo-game/id1473784939) and and android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.logomobile)

So far it’s made $25. All from iOS


I maintain Cayley, a knowledge graph database and built a web UI on top of it https://cayley.io


Really like the project. Thanks.


I’ve launched a Botanical Brewery, making non alcoholic tonics from medicinal mushrooms. Right now, we are 3 weeks away from launching our chaga drink. We were supposed to launch weeks ago, but COVID threw a spanner in the works. It’s my first time putting out a real product and the amount of work involved is huge - but it’s also a ton of fun. You can check it out at borealbrewing.ca


My side project, meta meme, makes around $5k a month.


How does it make money, seems to be a free app?


there is a subscription that can be purchased to unlock pro features.


Algotrading options. Some initial investment is needed in order to open margin account, but otherwise it's basically passive income.


I wanted to add a response here for every aspirational algotrader: you can lose a lot of money very quickly. I hobbied in algotrading through my twenties, learned a lot more than I expected too, worked out the math, and made $600 in a matter of 15 minutes on my first day before losing $1000 the same day. That's when I decided to pull the plug. I already knew that it would be more profitable finding contracting gigs then inevitably writing off 100s of hours I spent researching, doing the math, and coding over the years, but decided I would regret it if I never tried.


That's right, I don't advise anyone to invest more than what you're comfortable losing: besides making dumb decisions even such things as an innocuous gap in your test coverage can lead to losing everything you have in a zap. In my opinion there's also no need for margin account right away. Focus on paper trading and only invest a few hundred bucks in real account just to get the feeling of it and to realize what are the little things that paper trading misses.


I’m guessing that “passive income” means buying volatility & selling protection? If that’s what you’re doing, how did you fare in the recent Covid-related volatility spike?


I don't want to go into details on the strategies, but high volatility and high liquidity are great for options, especially for algotrading approaches ("picking up pennies in front of a steamroller"). This will be the most profitable year for many of us. In quiter times you can't get much better than the wheel, but right now certain approaches produce more than magnitude higher yields.


Without going into any more detail than you’re comfortable sharing, I’m just curious as to what kind of percentage return are you seeing from this?


It beats SPY, but I'm not leaving my job.


I've been wanting to do this for a while. What trading platform do you use and do they have a good API?


I am in EU which limits my options (no pun intended).

1. Degiro is sort of Robinhood counterpart, but it's more expensive, does not have (documented) API and lacks access to US exchanges (for options).

2. Interactive Brokers is a heavyweight that provides API and all the bells & whistles you could ask, but it clearly expects larger accounts. I have < $100k invested right now which makes their commissions rather expensive for daytrading and there is effectively no support from them (which they don't state clearly, but none of my queries have been answered by a human).

3. ChoiceTrade is available in EU as well, but they refused to provide me API access. Their commissions (for US options) are lower than IB (for < $100k accounts at least), but the service itself has shadier reputation.

I have tried all three of these and decided to use IB. They provide two types of API. I am using a simpler one - "TWS API". It is widely used, so there is plenty of documentation and libraries. Protocol is pretty archaic and you need to run GUI Java-based app which acts as a gateway between your code and their servers, but there are documented ways to hack it for running in headless mode and performance is fine for my use case, so I didn't bother looking any ways around it. Additionally there is a second API, which is using FIX protocol that's "industry standard", but I'm not working in fintech and am not familiar with it / didn't need it so far. My understanding is that you still need to run the same local Java app if going FIX route.

That said, assuming most people here are from US, I would recommend to try starting out with either 1) Alpaca.markets (free, but only supports trading stocks) or 2) TD Ameritrade (both stocks and options). Both have modern REST API that you would expect in 21st century. Might be too limiting for professionals and definitely isn't meant for HFT, but IMO they should be sufficient for people algotrading as a hobby.

I know that there are other services as well, some specifically targeted for algotraders and some people even use reverse-engineered Robinhood API, but I can't vouch for any of these.


would you be willing to share the resources you used to get started with algotrading and understanding options?


There are books and courses on various strategies, but I didn't use any as it started as a hobby and trying out different approaches & finding "hacks" on my own was more fun (it turns out all of these "hacks" were known previously, who would have thought).

If you have purely technical questions, reddit has a few communities that can help and you can find more people on Discord.

Understanding stocks, options and all the financial stuff was the hardest part (for me as a non-fintech guy) as it's filled with their own lingo and large part of information available online is useless or even harmful (either coming from noobs/gamblers or "financial gurus willing to disclose their secrets for in a private webinar" or even legitimate traders that operate through textbook "cargo cult" rituals). Investopedia is a good start, but if your goal is to have profitable algorithm that does not require your attention, you will need to read and understand the rules and regulations that apply to your jurisdiction and exchanges you use. There are many somewhat obscure events that happen fairly rarely (during normal times - low volatility period, right now everything is accelerated 5x) so you might not hear about them at all until they affect you, but once they do occur you will either lose money or lose opportunity. I am going for sources (sec.gov, nasdaq.com, nyse.com - I trade US options exclusively), there might be some shortcuts (probably trainings), but I haven't tried any.

If you are just starting, try paper trading but also get a real account with real money as soon as you can (< $500 is fine and it's not like you're losing that money [outright] either), because paper trading is really just an approximation and you won't catch all the special cases through it.

If you want to be above the average algotrader - start by collecting detailed data (per minute or so) and storing it for future use. Many brokers give you access to historical data but it is very basic and good quality historical data is very expensive. Use this dataset to backtest your algorithms, but try to make distinction between features that have real-world causes, the ones that are just product of chance and the ones that are caused by market makers or other traders. Most of the trades are happening fully automatically and everybody uses basically the same few sets of approaches, so you should be aware of them to either make or avoid losing money on those somewhat predictable components.

Oh, also make sure you understand the way your broker calculates all the fees and commissions as with algotrading that can make or break the whole profitability for you.


thanks so much for the detailed reply! I was mainly looking for reputable sources of information to learn from, there are so many BS opinionated websites and Youtube gurus trying to sell courses that it is very hard to find a quality source of information. I watched a bunch of Khan Academy videos but they weren't super comprehensive so I was looking to get more in depth.

what is your opinion on technical analysis and does it need to be used in algotrading? I've seen some of the basic indicators but wondering if I need something more than RSI and MACD


There are some patterns that are fairly reliable such as volatility around earnings. But that's sort of obvious and only works because everybody knows about & expects it to work. What's called TI on YouTube is different kind of price forecasting altogether. In my opinion there are only three ways to predict price movement on that scale:

  1. by having insider knowledge
  2. by market manipulation
  3. by getting lucky
Obviously, I haven't taken any classes or worked for the Wall Street so might be missing some hidden knowledge, do your own research. My strategies mostly assume random outcomes and work on a scale that does not require TI, but I also attempt to detect dangerous stocks, market makers' sentiment and market manipulation (btw, cryptocurrencies are great for studying mm).


Why options and not equities?


Anymore too busy for it, but in college my roommate and I had a side-hustle selling computer monitors on Amazon.

Basically there was a company that cleared out defunct call centers and such, who would call us up to offload monitors for $5 a piece. These would sell consistently on Amazon for $40. Not much effort involved, and made a few thousand that way to supply our other hobbies.


I built https://startablog.com - we set up free blogs for people.

I also have a mobility/coaching app that I've actually done an interview or two about but it's started to take off this year - https://movewellapp.com


I think I recognize your name. You had a motivational website or blog, Impossible things or something like that?


Skincare for men. Business was OK pre covid, but with Google Merchant screwing me with no explanation as to why Google Shopping is banned from my account, business dried up.

I don’t like talking about it with friends anymore because it sucks to talk about failing. I wish I could learn from this failure... but covid + Google Shopping really aren’t things in my control.

www.mendskin.co



My wife sells lasagna. It makes really good money, could potentially make more than a good job, but I'm not sure if we'd like to commit to that. Profit margins are pretty good, but it's still poor $ per effort. COVID makes it a bad time too.


There are usually a lot of food regulations, fees, kitchen requirements, etc. if you're selling food in any kind of quantity. Is the lasagna venture profitable with all of that factored in? A couple friends of mine have attempted various food-oriented businesses and the margins have consistently been pretty awful.


It does, and I say this from someone who has sold various food-oriented businesses before. It's not the case with most other food types, but lasagna is in the sweet spot for us.

It's not a "luxury" item like a latte. It has enough nutrition for people to justify buying it whenever they're too lazy to cook for their kids. It's not something everyone's mom knows how to cook. It can be done with cheap ingredients. It probably wouldn't be the case in a Western country.


Off-topic but I'm looking to launch a side project myself, and I like the inspiration in this thread. Does anyone have some advice on how to 'get out of your bubble' and find an interesting problem someone has that is worth solving?


Solve problems for yourself. Then see if it’s valuable for others.


My side project osapy.com can be used for testing APIs, webhooks,etc. It doesn't make money yet, but as an indie hacker I would assume it can take a couple of years to get the product right and make any money. Great job on getting 7k EUR!


I built https://pegao.co (to learn Django and React) an open source tool for save my temporary links and I added a donation button but honestly I'm the only active user.


https://artres.xyz and the tumblr it's connected to makes a little bit of money like $1000 total over a few years. I mainly make money off of selling PDFs or tips!


I made http://backseatbarber.com/ mostly just for humor. I get a few 10s of dollars per year in shirt sales though.


I made https://gotmemo.net thinking many people needed Asana notifications delivered on Skype. Turns out, not many. 70-80$ AAR.


Right now I have things for sale on Society6 and make an extra $200 a month. It’s not much but I don’t have to put in much effort.


Your website is fun to view. It doesn't work under my normal setting. I've to disable the dns proxy and brave shield to see the ads. Surprisingly, it's not random ads, they are coherently related to marketing service.


Where do you host this site?


cool


Built a Slack bot to get notified whenever someone schedules or cancels a Calendly event.

Received lots of feedback initially, and the project is roughly feature complete.

Should invest in marketing but haven't been doing that at all ...Does that qualify as not talking about it? :)

https://calenduck.co/


[flagged]


How do you get your links into the mix so to speak? or is that “secret sauce” haha. I’m just curious if the people I see dropping links into random threads are pulling that much or if you do something more sophisticated.


[flagged]


I mean, you did ask for projects people would usually rather not talk about.


No, that's a basic affiliate program. I don't think you need to buy or trade anything yourself for example on Binance, just getting people to sign up and trade through your referral.



Certainly fits the qualifications of the post. Judgement aside.


Actually Brilliant!


I have one. Id rather not talk about it


By the way this is not a project. Please don’t call it a side project you are misleading people.




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