It is unnatural that kids are segregated by age into "peer groups" - in school and outside school (like at lessons). What's evolutionarily normal is to have children who are surrounded by, and interact mostly, with adults, in a group where many of the people are your family. The adults bring you up to their level. The kids keep you at your current (their) level.
No wonder kids today are more and more emotionally & intellectually stunted. None of them are "the dumbest guy in the room" - because they interact almost exclusively with other kids their exact same age.
30 kids and 1 teacher… the 1 teacher is not enough of an influence to make the kids feel ashamed of being so immature.
I, for one, have thought it was clear from history that "teens" are made. I grew up with lots of responsibility and it was clear to me, even as a 10-year-old, how different that made me from the kids I went to school with. The having of the responsibility wasn't what made me different, but it obviously made me think and behave differently too.
IMO the only reason that upper middle class kids today -- who are the ones always studied -- don't develop the part of the brain that connects cause & effect, & prevents risk-taking, is because they are never allowed to have enough power to fuck up.
How can you learn that stupidity leads to crisis if you're never allowed to make your own decisions?
The brain is plastic, it changes based on what you learn. A child kept away from speech until he's 4 years old will be unable to learn to speak normally. A teenager kept away from responsibility & work of value will grow up to be...
But the "scientists" who do these studies make pronouncements about their studies, but they never say "Sheltered white upper-class kids with two parents have the following traits..." they say "Kids have the following traits..."
IMO the only reason that upper middle class kids today -- who are the ones always studied -- don't develop the part of the brain that connects cause & effect, & prevents risk-taking, is because they are never allowed to have enough power to fuck up.
This simply isn't consistent with those people who are given a lot of responsibility. Like those who leave home at 12 or so and go into the world on their own. You'd think they grow into the power brokers of this country, but instead they usually get the short end of the stick.
The US prison population is full of people who decided at an early age to shun their parents and branch out on their own. Although one thing I've noticed is that black people tend to think white people are really goofy -- even adults. Maybe while blacks are incarcerated at higher rates, they're actually more mature, on average.
In any case, having the shackles lifted (no adult supervision) doesn't seem to result in a better life.
There is an difference between taking responsebility for your own life and be left alone by your parents.
I'm currently 18 i didn't ever wanted to behave like an typical immature teenager. I think part of the reason is that my parents didn't disallow me anything. so they weren't my opponent, but a role model.
Straw man argument. I never said "stop supervising kids at 10 years old" or "12 year olds should leave home." Neither did I say that kids from impoverished homes fare better on cognitive tests. Ludicrous.
Not a strawman. But these are some of the few examples where teens effectively go into the adult world (in many cases acting as adults). And kids from impoverished homes often have to run the house. There aren't many controls. so I took some of the few that exist, as imperfect as they are.
The thing that is hard to reconcile is that the people who seem to be most lauded as successful have had the most supervised childhoods. Folks like Gates, Jobs, Obama, Clinton, etc... What they do share in common is that they break from the mold at about the cusp of traditional adulthood (around 18-21) -- not at age 13.
Of course it's a straw man argument. Again, I never said that the solution was to force children to fend for themselves from 12 years old, or your latest number, 13.
What I said was: "What's evolutionarily normal is to have children who are surrounded by, and interact mostly, with adults, in a group where many of the people are your family. The adults bring you up to their level."
And "How can you learn that stupidity leads to crisis if you're never allowed to make your own decisions?"
Children from impoverished backgrounds in the United States are raised, such as it is, with incredible differences compared to children of well-off parents. They have a "30 million word gap" in terms of words spoken to them. They are not asked questions that cause them to think. They do not receive adequate nutrition.
You can't compare a poor child whose parents ignored him with a middle class child whose parents let him make his own decisions, like whether or not to do his homework, go to bed at a reasonable hour, earn and spend his own money, pay for some of his own bills, prepare his own lunches & do his own laundry, make dinner for the rest of the family, clean his room or not, work at a meaningful apprenticeship, date who he wanted when he felt ready to date, get piercings or dye hair, wear what he wants, etc.
In short: you are a troll. I hope you are joking but if you don't realize that you are a troll, you seriously need to deepen your thinking on subjects because you're just flapping about on the surface of a topic but you think you're making waves.
In short: you are a troll. I hope you are joking but if you don't realize that you are a troll, you seriously need to deepen your thinking on subjects because you're just flapping about on the surface of a topic but you think you're making waves.
Thanks. I needed a tldr on that one. What you say may all be true. Hard for me to know because my brain hasn't fully formed since I wasn't allowed to do crack rocks and rob liquor stores in the evening with my friends.
In any case you can raise your children to be effectively parentless. That's your choice. Charlie Sheen gets paid better than most.
Well said. By defining teens, we have also inadvertently defined who they are not.
_How can you learn that stupidity leads to crisis if you're never allowed to make your own decisions?_
I don't agree with this. The whole thing about mixing with adults is the adults will tell the kids to avoid repeating the mistakes they made when they were young. The whole idea of "rebels without a cause" is based on the understanding that if they knew and internalized the knowledge, teens would be much more careful. By not taking teens into the adult tribe, the teens end up having to create their own tribes and culture.
No wonder kids today are more and more emotionally & intellectually stunted. None of them are "the dumbest guy in the room" - because they interact almost exclusively with other kids their exact same age.
30 kids and 1 teacher… the 1 teacher is not enough of an influence to make the kids feel ashamed of being so immature.
I, for one, have thought it was clear from history that "teens" are made. I grew up with lots of responsibility and it was clear to me, even as a 10-year-old, how different that made me from the kids I went to school with. The having of the responsibility wasn't what made me different, but it obviously made me think and behave differently too.
IMO the only reason that upper middle class kids today -- who are the ones always studied -- don't develop the part of the brain that connects cause & effect, & prevents risk-taking, is because they are never allowed to have enough power to fuck up.
How can you learn that stupidity leads to crisis if you're never allowed to make your own decisions?
The brain is plastic, it changes based on what you learn. A child kept away from speech until he's 4 years old will be unable to learn to speak normally. A teenager kept away from responsibility & work of value will grow up to be...
But the "scientists" who do these studies make pronouncements about their studies, but they never say "Sheltered white upper-class kids with two parents have the following traits..." they say "Kids have the following traits..."