> As I see it, there are so few cases in California because of the measures that have been taken.
California has been spared because it's not in the Covid Belt. That's a term I've come up with to describe the ideal climate that SARS-CoV-2 thrives in. All hard hit regions exist in the Covid climate belt.
Not all the least hit areas (eg South Korea) exist outside of the Covid Belt. You can also limit its spread with other aggressive measures. Climate provides a substantial natural impediment, although it doesn't entirely stop the spread either. It's why Texas, New Mexico, Arizona look like they do right now versus Michigan and New York. It's not because Texas has had amazing testing and tracing and quarantine measures.
It's why Tehran was hammered by the virus but Baghdad was not. It wasn't luck, it wasn't testing, it wasn't tracing, it wasn't lockdown measures. Baghdad is a hotter climate than Tehran during the December > May time frame.
It's why Athens & Greece is largely spared but Milan is not. It's not because Greece implemented South Korea-style measures early on and they have a far better healthcare system than Britain. It's why Southern Italy is not hit like Northern Italy. They have different climates.
It's why Madrid is hit so hard but Barcelona and Lisbon are not. They have different climates.
It's why NYC is hit hard but San Francisco and Los Angeles and San Diego are not.
The entire San Diego County has 53 deaths.
It's why Texas is largely spared but Massachusetts and Michigan are not.
It's why Detroit was hit but Phoenix was not.
It's why Belgium and the Netherlands were hit but Mexico wasn't.
It's why Wuhan was hit but Hawaii and Jakarta and Singapore were not.
It's why Algiers (7.8m people in their metro, just south of Spain) isn't drowning in Covid cases and hasn't been hit like Madrid.
It's also why India and Pakistan have been largely spared bad outbreaks. Defying all predictions thus far to the contrary.
It's why Lagos Nigeria isn't being hit hard and the Netherlands and Britain were.
It's why Cairo isn't buried in dead bodies right now. The Cairo metro has 20 million people. Check out the temps in Cairo during the Nov > May time frame.
Look at the climates. Nearly all of the hardest hit areas exist in a sweet spot on temperature range.
See those higher highs through the flu season? That 8-10 degrees of higher temps throughout Winter is the difference. Getting as close to the ~55-60 F or higher temp zone at the highs as possible during Winter is where you want to be. The regions that are, have seen dramatically fewer cases. This spans all variations of circumstances between nations (rich vs poor, good testing vs weak testing etc). At 64 degrees F and above, we know that influenza, for example, is heavily impeded by the heat.
This is why so many experts have been predicting a big downturn in the virus as Spring & Summer temperatures roll in.
This has already been shown by several studies. We already know why. 90-95% of all cases of transmission have occurred in the Covid Belt areas that have ideal climates for the transmission of the virus (otherwise Africa would be drowning in Covid deaths right now).
Do you have any sources? Epidemiologists don't think that temperature has been playing a major role here, so do you have any sources that's not just you hypothesizing this?
Because one trend I see a lot on HN is people making wild guesses about things waaaaaaay outside their area of expertise ...
By wild guess you mean ignoring the comically epic pile of overwhelming evidence that shows climate is a very large factor in impeding the spread of the virus (and applies to locations regardless of testing rates or economic condition)?
I've been talking about this on HN for a while now. I've been making the same case over and over.
Guess what hasn't changed since I first floated it here? The higher temp areas I've been touting under this theory have continued to be spared compared to the Covid Belt climate areas, despite predictions by the so-called experts that everyone would be hit (the same experts that are so baffled by Texas and California). It's not testing or luck or lockdown measures or tracing. Texas did everything wrong compared to eg South Korea, they should look like New York / New Jersey / Michigan / Massachussets. It's the climate providing a big assist.
I've seen some really outlandish articles dancing around it. What crazy magic is this, that is protecting these states?!?
It's the climate.
Epidemiologists don't think so? Which ones? It's a proven fact that coronaviruses and influenza are both impeded by higher temperatures. What I'm describing makes perfect sense. We already know there is a direct correlation between higher temps and lower viability of such respiratory viruses.
From 2011 & SARS: "The Effects of Temperature and Relative Humidity on the Viability of the SARS Coronavirus"
I appreciate the effort you're putting in to this and it's a shame you're getting downvoted this heavily.
I would want to see a very careful treatment of this data before I could be convinced that temperature is a greater factor in transmission rates than stay-at-home policies or population density. It would be really easy to cherry-pick examples.
A couple of counter-examples that come immediately to mind are Chicago and Florida. Chicago's climate should fit your model but they have about 1/3rd the cases per capita vs New York City. Florida meanwhile should be warm enough to be outside of your "Covid Belt", but cases there are expanding extremely rapidly and it's likely to overtake Washington state in per capita cases and deaths. Louisiana similarly has one of the highest per capita death rates in the nation.
Climate might be one factor, but it's not clear that it's a big factor, let alone the most important one.
Can you put together some actual data then? Like, get all the relevant data for hospitalizations and deaths by locality and find a correlation against climate data? And then do the same for things like density, how early and strictly social distancing measures were put into effect, etc., and see if it has more or less correlation than those?
My gut feeling here is that climate is not a significant factor, but that those others are. And you haven't come close to actually demonstrating it with rigor beyond it just being a guess that you have (which is fine; guesses are useful).
And you're right, the connection between climate and the spread of a disease is well known, which is why if it were relevant here there would be lots of people besides you talking about it. The articles you linked do seem to show that the virus might not survive for quite as long on surfaces at high temperatures and humidities, but that's just not really that relevant for how this disease spreads. People are primarily either inhaling droplets directly, or touching things that others have touched recently and then getting it into their face. The virus surviving for hours on a surface before being touched and then touched again to a face orifice was always on the long tail of transmission methods, so flattening that tail a little bit doesn't make a meaningful difference in the overall spread of the virus.
It seems to all fit together but I would not be too hasty in proclaiming the actual heat to be the affecting factor. Colder place will naturally be more densely populated for example.
> Colder place will naturally be more densely populated for example.
That's plainly wrong. The world has huge numbers of hot, very dense cities that have not been hit hard. The Philippines, Indonesia, Mexico, India all have obvious of examples.
Mexico City should be in extremely bad shape right now.
Here are the top 10 most densely populated US metro zones (per the 2010 US census; population per sq mile):
Los Angeles, SF + Oakland, San Jose, NYC + NJ + CT (isolated, NYC is the most dense), Las Vegas, Miami, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, New Orleans
Also, Riverside CA is #12, Phoenix AZ is #16. Both have been largely spared.
Now look at the per capita Covid deaths in LA, the Bay Area, Las Vegas, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Phoenix, Riverside. Then compare it to the Covid Belt areas.
If New Orleans hadn't made the mistake of holding Mardi Gras, they would look like other urban areas in Louisiana and the south broadly and would have dramatically fewer cases (eg Mississippi has 1/10th the deaths of Louisiana with 2/3 the population; Florida has over 4x the population of Louisiana, with half the deaths).
The Virginia Beach + Norfolk area is #22 on population density. It has so few deaths it barely registers. A couple million people live in that area, there have been only a handful of deaths. Average highs are 61 degrees F in November, around 50 from Dec > Feb, then 58 in March. ~12-15 degrees warmer than NYC throughout Winter. It never sinks into the Covid Belt ideal temperature zone, comparable to Milan, Wuhan, NYC, etc.
Check out most of the major cities in Florida. They're doing extremely well. The Jacksonville area has a dozen deaths in a metro of 1.5 million. Tampa and Orlando have done similarly well.
It's way too early to be making any definitive statements over what area has been hard hit or not. All we know right now is who got hit by it first, not worst.
California has been spared because it's not in the Covid Belt. That's a term I've come up with to describe the ideal climate that SARS-CoV-2 thrives in. All hard hit regions exist in the Covid climate belt.
Not all the least hit areas (eg South Korea) exist outside of the Covid Belt. You can also limit its spread with other aggressive measures. Climate provides a substantial natural impediment, although it doesn't entirely stop the spread either. It's why Texas, New Mexico, Arizona look like they do right now versus Michigan and New York. It's not because Texas has had amazing testing and tracing and quarantine measures.
It's why Tehran was hammered by the virus but Baghdad was not. It wasn't luck, it wasn't testing, it wasn't tracing, it wasn't lockdown measures. Baghdad is a hotter climate than Tehran during the December > May time frame.
It's why Athens & Greece is largely spared but Milan is not. It's not because Greece implemented South Korea-style measures early on and they have a far better healthcare system than Britain. It's why Southern Italy is not hit like Northern Italy. They have different climates.
It's why Madrid is hit so hard but Barcelona and Lisbon are not. They have different climates.
It's why NYC is hit hard but San Francisco and Los Angeles and San Diego are not.
The entire San Diego County has 53 deaths.
It's why Texas is largely spared but Massachusetts and Michigan are not.
It's why Detroit was hit but Phoenix was not.
It's why Belgium and the Netherlands were hit but Mexico wasn't.
It's why Wuhan was hit but Hawaii and Jakarta and Singapore were not.
It's why Algiers (7.8m people in their metro, just south of Spain) isn't drowning in Covid cases and hasn't been hit like Madrid.
It's also why India and Pakistan have been largely spared bad outbreaks. Defying all predictions thus far to the contrary.
It's why Lagos Nigeria isn't being hit hard and the Netherlands and Britain were.
It's why Cairo isn't buried in dead bodies right now. The Cairo metro has 20 million people. Check out the temps in Cairo during the Nov > May time frame.
Look at the climates. Nearly all of the hardest hit areas exist in a sweet spot on temperature range.
Milan: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Wuhan: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
NYC: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Tehran: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
London: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Boston: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Chicago: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Now compare to
Baghdad: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Cairo: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Los Angeles: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Algiers: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Lagos: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Houston: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Phoenix: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Singapore: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Las Vegas: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
San Diego: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Athens: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
---
Compare Barcelona: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
To Madrid: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
Compare Milan again:https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
To Rome: https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-...
See those higher highs through the flu season? That 8-10 degrees of higher temps throughout Winter is the difference. Getting as close to the ~55-60 F or higher temp zone at the highs as possible during Winter is where you want to be. The regions that are, have seen dramatically fewer cases. This spans all variations of circumstances between nations (rich vs poor, good testing vs weak testing etc). At 64 degrees F and above, we know that influenza, for example, is heavily impeded by the heat.
This is why so many experts have been predicting a big downturn in the virus as Spring & Summer temperatures roll in.
This has already been shown by several studies. We already know why. 90-95% of all cases of transmission have occurred in the Covid Belt areas that have ideal climates for the transmission of the virus (otherwise Africa would be drowning in Covid deaths right now).