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Since having kids I’ve been realising that a lot of the things in life that other people do, that have never made sense to me, suddenly make a whole lot more sense in the context of kids.

With a kid, I’m suddenly super grateful for my little lawn.



When I was a kid, our (huge) back yard was more orchard than yard. It had at least 30 fruit trees, including cherry, apple, pear, peach and plum. There were hazelnuts, brambles and raspberries. Next to that was a patch of land with all kinds of produce.

I loved playing in that yard. It had great places to hide. Ample trees to climb. Wildlife to look for and learn about. A variety of fun tasks to perform, from picking fruit and berries to making jam and juice.

When my younger brother turned 10, our parents decided that he had to play football. Almost all of the trees were felled. Everything I loved about that place was destroyed, and replaced by one, big, boring, lifeless lawn.

Instead of fun tasks, I was thenceforth assigned the task of mowing the lawn. Which I resented and continue to detest to this day.


It took me many years to realize that nearly everything in my grandmother's back yard (except the lawn and porch) was food. There were orange trees, a cherry tree, an avocado tree, garlic, and a raspberry bramble. I loved picking raspberries. There was a pomegranate tree in the front.

A garden is always going to be better than a lawn. A garden of plants that grow faster than trees may be higher-maintenance, though.


Wow, crazy. I grew up with a modest lawn (with two trees, one smack in the middle of each side of the lawn) and my best friend had a really big yard on a slope with a bunch of apple trees.

Playing in his yard was way more fun.


Huh, interesting.

I have a kid and I'm grateful we gave up our lawn. She plants in the spring, harvests, cooks, and preserves with us. She's excited to make pickles, jam, squash, pumpkins, corn, etc from things she's grown and tended to. She even got to pick out some of the flowers and make her own little square.

Watching her step out to grab some blueberries, raspberries, or strawberries is one of the best feelings in the world.

We read seed catalogs together in the winters and plan what we could grow (Ooh, what if we grew purple cauliflower? Or rhubarb for pie!)


Where does she play ball games, set up a paddling pool, and wrestle?

I'd agree if you have a house big enough to have a playroom, and have open space close by, it's probably easy enough.

Our lawn is kinda a tiny, tiny, wildflower meadow, ie it's not cut much. The bees love the Clover.


When I was young we did those things in public parks. Except for the pool, we went to a public pool instead.


Paddling pools and wrestling don't take a 1/5 acre lawn (not atypical suburban plot size). In my previous house, the back yard was heavily landscaped/hardscaped - patio, retaining wall, rocks and shrubs on the hill, etc. The front was lawn. Still plenty of room for my son to run around. And if he wanted more space, he went to the park around the corner.

There's also a substantial difference between a "natural" lawn, where clover and other plants are allowed vs the stereotypical "perfect" lawn (in the US) with a single grass species (and heavy application of herbicides and fertilizers).


Ball games are at the park. It's a short bike ride or moderate walk away. We have a small gravel area we set up the paddling pool in, and no reason one can't wrestle in between beds (or indoors on the carpet).


Great for you, our house is small (for the UK), there's a shoulder width of space around the beds; a park with grass is too far for the little ones to walk and there's been a couple of stabbings locally which makes us a little reluctant to let them out.

It's almost like sweeping statements such as "no one should have a lawn" need modifiers. ;o)

I'd guess grass is still better environmentally than gravel; so long as you don't over tend it (and our mower was rescued from the dump).

Have fun.


I know this may sound callous; but if they're too young to go to the park unsupervised, are they actually in your yard unsupervised; especially if you're concerned about local crime? I'm not pushing one way or another honestly, it just seems like an odd qualifier unless your yard is extremely private and maintained in a way that there are 0 hazards as well.


The park? That's where I did those activities as a kid.


In what decadent universe is a pool expected or even necessary?


I suggest you google “paddling pool”. They are under $30 and for little kids. Not something decadent...



Our youngest lamented the lack of a front lawn to lay on. But I honestly don't believe that between the damp and the dog walkers she would have actually done the activities she had in her head.

You have to mow it. You have to mow it every week. You have to mow it every week even if you're tired, or sick, or it's hot, or it's cold, or it's rainy, or your friends are playing a game, or you had a sleepover. No excuses, no exceptions. You can't mow it too early in the morning, or too late in the evening. You can't stop halfway through and do the rest later (back yard/front yard perhaps, but not half of the front yard). The grass does not care what your reasons are. It just cares that you didn't mow it. If you don't, it punishes you. Sometimes the neighbors do, too.

In theory they understand this, in practice there are plenty of other activities that result in a litany of renegotiations. Grass. Doesn't. Care.


You made me think back over my childhood which was pretty idyllic in terms of outside time and non-supervision.

You know, lawns were simply not a major factor in that, outside of perhaps once-in-a-year water gun fights with some neighbor kids, the wilderness held far more appeal. Back-lot tracks, untilled fields, marginal scrubland running along stream beds. That was where the majority of my 'green time' took place.

I do remember a few families around the village that had completely unkept, wilderness yards. They provided far more entertainment than any with manicured lawns.


We had a front lawn, a back lawn, and a dog. The back lawn may as well have been a concrete slab for playing purposes due to the statistical likelihood of dog. The front lawn was exposed to all the neighbors and thus similarly unusable for a social anxiety kid. Would have given up that lawn in a heartbeat for wilderness, which I spent years hiking and exploring.


Could you elaborate why that is?


They can run around on it, play ball games with their mates, you can put down a slip 'n slide in the summer, there's room for a trampoline etc. etc.


Also (I'm guessing) room for barbecue parties and such - generally facilitating socialization with other families with children.


Many of our raised beds have a piece of flat wood on one side that serves as a bench. In the summer we'll host garden parties and people will socialize among the flowers and veggies. The delight people have picking tomatoes, peas, berries, beans, corn, and other things for their meal is real.


I'd guess you could do all of this on a meadow as well.


What's the difference between a meadow and a lawn? In relation to the article that is, obviously I could tell the difference between a meadow and a lawn.

Edit: To add a bit of context here a lot of people are talking about pesticides and fertilizer and stuff like that but we don't do anything like that, we just mow it when it gets a bit long. Does that mean our lawn is technically a meadow?


I'm not aware of specific definitions, but in the context of the US, a lawn often has regular applications of fertilizer and herbicides to promote the growth of a small number (often a single) species of grass. This also requires more regular watering, as the grasses tend to be less drought resistant.

A meadow, or natural lawn, or whatever you want to call it would be a mix of grass, clover, and other "weeds". It wouldn't require anywhere near as much chemical treatment (if any) and could be mowed and watered far less often. To me, it would also be allowed to grow long enough to flower, to promote pollinating insects.


Huh, no way am I fertilising or spraying weeds out on my lawn, as far as I can tell it's your basic tall fescue grass with some clover and self seeded violets thrown in the mix, and its main function is being trampled by kids. It's lucky if I put a sprinkler on it.

I tend not to let the clover or dandelions flower though, as it attracts bees to the lawn, and barefoot children (very common in my country, and not looked down on like in the US) and bees on a lawn aren't a happy mix.

My garden is filled with heaps of flowering annuals and perennials though.


Those are all choices, plus you don’t need to turn the entire backyard into a forest.


A friend once explained that boys are like dogs. They need exercising twice a day. A back yard and a ball are sufficient for that. A paved area is more likely than lawn to provide yet more trips to ER.


I wish I could get my son to exercise twice a day. He hates going outside. He prefers his exercise running around in Minecraft, and if he does get it in real life, it's jumping around the living room.


Be a parent. Set rules and consequences. Outside time or no Minecraft seems like a no brainer. Interact and get him to join you in things you like doing outside. He’ll probably hate it for 1 month or 1 year, but it’s your responsibility.


If you're involved as a parent, sure. Just for the love of god do not just throw your kid outside saying "play outside", because that sucks. I'm speaking from experience.


It sucks for sure, but it can also give you plenty of fuel for creativity & imagination. I would at least throw them outside with some tools & toys.


Things I like doing outside? I'm afraid that's a very short list. I totally understand where he's coming from.

We do set rules, it's just that we don't always maintain them very strictly, and he loves to bend them. And when he does play outside to get more Minecraft time, he thinks 15 minutes outside it enough.

It seems he just has no idea what to do outside. As a kid, I regularly played outside, probably because I had to, and so did the other kids in the neighbourhood, so we played outside. But none of his friends plays outside, so there's nothing to do for him outside.

What doesn't help is that we live in a city: no backyard, no fields or forests behind the house, and watch when you cross the street. Plenty of playgrounds fortunately, but the youngest, who loves to play outside, is just 5, which is a bit young to be outside on his own, so he's learning to adapt to indoor play. Maybe playing outside is getting trained out of kids because of the environment we live in.


Ah yes, your city environment will make it more difficult. That said, if he's old enough to bike (and the city you live in has some bike safe areas) then that's a great hobby to push. Taking 30 minute walks around the neighborhood is another. Regularly going outdoors (taking a walk together, visiting parks, any local state parks) as a family helps. But yea, if you're not doing it it's not going to transfer well to your kids.

Regarding setting rules: Kids are very bright when it comes to getting their way. If there's any loopholes they'll exploit them. If they detect weakness in resolve then they'll push and push using negotiation, guilt, deception, etc... The question they're trying to figure out is, is my parent in charge or can I be? The hardest but best thing you can do as a parent to instill disciple is to be clear, consistent, and follow-through. It's really hard. I'm in the midst of it too!


Get him a VR headset. Beat Saber can be quite the exercise routine.


Isn’t that true of kids in general?


It might be, but that's not the anecdote they were sharing?

In my limited experience (ex cub leader [mixed sex groups], church kids helper, worked with children for 15 years; kids and nieces/nephews of my own) most boys behaviour declines rapidly if you don't "run them", but most girls aren't affected in the same way.

On our scout camps (mixed sex, mixed age, for the last 20 years at least) in free time the girls _tend_ to retreat to their tents and chat and the boys _tend_ to hit the field and run around like idiots. There's obviously a lot of selection bias in these groups too, they do outdoor pursuits, rough camping, etc. -- these girls are fit and hardy and as capable at kayaking/hiking/climbing/backwoodsmanship as the boys (indeed at the top end, 14yo, the girls are often fitter and stronger as they tend to grow a little earlier than the boys do). There's probably some observer bias too, of course, and this is anecdotal (but longitudinal).

My observations of toddlers at "mums & toddlers" groups suggests the ones who run around with a pram are usually boys (though that's far from exclusive; and the mothers [it's about 1:30 men] have very strong gender bias, which might be the origin of that effect).

YMMV.

Interested in other observations, FWIW I'm in the UK.


Just wanted to highlight that I like it a lot whenever people provide context and limitations to their comments. Very measured and thus easy to take at face value. Thanks a lot!


Ehhhhh. I disagree. That's too much of a generalisation. Different people, different interests. Many kids do like to exercise. Many prefer staying indoor.



Reading this, the 2 hours of physical exercise per week in school make a lot more sense now from an physiological point of view.

I always just took them as fun time and some kids took them as annoying burden that should be avoided. I not once thought about that they are necessary to develop my body and motor skills.

I always took Judo training as a near perfect way to improve my movement skills though.


What kids prefer and what they need are not one and the same. A lot of parenting is about teaching kids to go outside their immediate preferences for long-term gain, and to learn new preferences.




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