The most critical words are genuinely and disingenuous. You may be able to put something over on us every once in a while, but for the most part, this is a crowd that doesn't respond too well to posers and B.S. Be sincere and we'll tell you the truth. Be phony and we'll probably send you packing. Nice post, swombat.
You should add one other point: don't do this if you're not already an established HN user. "Review my startup" posts from new accounts are usually killed. Otherwise anyone could use this format to promote any site, a fact spammers started to notice a few months ago.
What would be your definition of established? 3 months on HN? 6 months on HN? 1 year on HN? karma > 200? karma > 500? Some combination of the above? Something else?
Not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely interested to know what your criteria for this would be.
Edit: I see that this whole issue received quite a bit of discussion a few months ago:
I don't think you can put hard definitions on it. HN is more like a village where people come and go, and some people of a certain mindset decide to settle. Anyone is welcome to move in, but acceptance into the village is based on your interactions. Being a nice neighbor, as it were. Lots of communication in the form of quality submissions and comments are principle. Karma score isn't as important.
Sure, and I should have said that I would only have expected a "ballpark range" answer. I think something like this is always going to have some fuzziness to it, especially if pg (or whoever else has power to kill posts) is making a kill/no-kill decision on a one off basis, as opposed to having it done by an algorithm.
Just curious to get a rough feel, that's all. I mean, take myself... my account is 1013 days old, and my karma is > 500, but subjectively, I still think of myself as being a newb around here. I'd probably post a "Rate my Startup" thread if I had something ready to go, but I'd probably say that I feel just barely qualified to do so.
is there any way to tell if your submission is getting deleted as spam? i've been a member for more than 6 months but don't comment that often/have never submitted and can't tell why my posts aren't going through.
My account is about six months old, but I'm gonna have to get out the habit of just reading/lurking and contribute a little more I think. I was planning on submitting a rate my startup post next week but now having read pg's comment I'm not so sure whether that's a good idea. I really don't want to miss the opportunity to get invaluable feedback from the HN community. My app is aimed at HN users to some extent and so it's really important to me to get this right.
I had considered that it might be a little rude for one of my first posts to be an ask type post. So I had already started to outline some articles to post around the same time, e.g. I've got a bunch of notes detailing which methods have helped me increased my productivity recently, I think some would find useful. I guess for anyone in the same position as me it can't hurt to try and submit helpful posts first. I guess that's the right thing to do anyway and so that'll be my plan going forward.
Forgot one. Once you've been on a while, you can write the meta-post: "How to get your startup on Hacker News" or "Best times to post an article on HN"
Nice post, swombat.
The only thing I would add is that I have noticed that we all like charts, graphs, and details about stuff. So if you post about your income and traffic for a startup, be sure to include a chart and a bunch of nice, juicy details. People seem adverse to anything that's high-level or conceptual, and more friendly towards concrete and numerical information. Sometimes I think even if the details are tangential and not a directly necessary part of your thesis, folks like seeing them. So if you're doing a post on "When to log into HN to read the best comments" be sure to have some kind of graph. Don't just say 14:00GMT.
I'm looking forward to it! The more metas you can throw in there and still keep it coherent? Love it. I might do something like "How to comment on articles about how to write articles on posting on Hacker News"
But we must have a chart. Maybe two charts, for a nice two-level effect. :)
I think this is good advice and HN would be better off if more people followed it. Besides, "Review my startup" posts are my favorite type of post and if this brings out more then I'm all for it.
I agree and click on a lot of them just to give feedback and see what others are working on.
In my Hacker Newsletter I collect and share a lot of them each week, but the odd thing is they tend to have very low click through rates - which I haven't been able to figure out why yet.
Agreed. You can learn a lot by reviewing other people's startups, and by seeing what points other people have about the startups being offered. Much like in other forms of "art" like writing or singing or painting, there's a lot to be gained from "critique groups".
In the article: "..their feedback is valuable. It's often thorough, honest, qualified, and sometimes unpleasant."
I think many people here will act upon "if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing."
...which is a pity. Sometimes somebody posts a webapp with very crappy design or the 100th clone of a mediocre idea. Yet most people will tell him how great it is. This is not helpful. Sometimes I wish people were a little bit more critical. Are they afraid about getting voted down? They shouldn't.
I doubt it's about downvotes. I think people want to be supportive, on the basis that making something mediocre is better than not making anything at all.
I think the number of comments and upvotes is a good enough indicator - as you said, people who think it's stupid or (more likely) just don't care won't post anything. When asking for feedback it helps to be able to read between the lines - true excitement will show through, indifference will show as mainly technical advice (make your message clearer, move that to the left, a link is broken, etc.)
When I created http://sleepyti.me, the first place I posted it was here to HN for feedback. Using that feedback, I was able to make signficant improvements and bug fixes. Reddit's /r/web_design subreddit helped me out with the look of the page, and now my site--albeit not a startup--is earning almost enough money to pay my rent. It's not a $200M Heroku buyout, but it's not bad for a small, simple web app.
As others have said in this thread, the most important part is to genuinely want help, feedback and discussion. Don't post to HN to argue with participants, or to try to spam your link enough to get noticed. The value of the HN homepage isn't necessarily the traffic, but the feedback.
Why do some people consider it "bad form" to include your link in the URL portion of the HN submission form? I've been wondering this for a while, since I am always annoyed when I have to cut-and-paste a URL.
Yes, I certainly am aware of the technological solutions to this problem. Nevertheless, I am still baffled by the apparent stigma towards linking to your site in the URL field, which seems like the natural, obvious, and right thing to do.
Here's my (noobish) understanding: On Hacker News when you submit you have the option to include a clickable URL -or- text. The preferred thing to do is to include some text rather than the URL.
Good post, but this "not allergic to commercial offerings like many other popular forums on the web" is changing rapidly. I'm seeing a large influx of people who don't seem to realize that profit is not a bad word.
In the article: "Include the link in the body of your post. It won't be hotlinked, but don't worry about that. Do not include it as the "URL" part of your post, some people consider that bad form."
Is that true? It seems that there are as many posts utilizing the URL field as without and I've never seen any chastising about the practice. Posts w/o a URL move off the site faster (right?) so there would be a definitely advantage to linking to the new site in question.
Moves off the site faster at the expense of not having an easy path back to the comments page. And unless you do a quick "description in the first post" I like the extra HN-tailored info that we get in the description, rather than a blind link to something.
If the post is good (which is to say if your product is interesting), it will stay on the front page long enough that it doesn't matter when you post. One caveat, avoid the weekend since most popular news sites like HN slow down during that time period.
Write a blog post on some link-bait subject, submit it, talk about the subject for a few paragraphs, then interject a "the company I started, XYZ, solves this problem in a novel way...." about halfway through and spend the rest of your time talking about your company?
I suspect you'll get a fair few more comments via this link, since it's at the top of HN. If I were you I'd wait a bit and improve the site some more before resubmitting, assuming you get at least 5 or so extra comments in the next few hours...
