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At stage 0 it is immediately taken for granted that there is a sense of self, an identity. This is a very bold leap and his entiry theory builds on this.



What Kegan is describing in order 0 is a state where the infant does not have a bound identification, i.e. does not have an identification: she perceives, but doesn't categorise into me/not-me. That's not a sense of self, but just a sense. The "everything sensed is taken to be an extension of an infant" part is a descriptions of how we perceive the infant in that state, not a description of the infant's own reflection.

Also, why do you say that the theory builds upon this? I didn't find it to be an important part of the theory.


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The person you're quoting didn't say the theory was correct or even that he believes the theory. His response was only his interpretation of the theory. If you feel the theory is incorrect, then perhaps take it up with Robert Kegan.


I didn’t get that from him. In state 0 the baby has sense but not about the self. Imo self is something taught by the society and nurturing so baby would not have that concept.


Parts of the world belonging to a system and other world parts are so different in a system's ability to control them, that I suspect that any system capable of planning, learning and building world-models will naturally divide the world into self and not-self.

In state 0 such discovery just hasn't happened yet.


Not by physics? Things your body can or cannot do, and what things happen to it and are sensed?

The distinction made by the stupidest causal temporal relationships from senses with some built-in importance in them.


I see nothing wrong with it. Theory was not built on the idea of sense of self of a newborn. It was built on senses of self of people of older ages. Then the succession of selves was extrapolated to a newborn. Kegan got a degenerate trivial case, nothing wrong here.


Are you saying that there might one day be evidence for the nonexistence of a sense of self in an infant? I can't even find that kind of evidence for a rock--seems to me that Kegan is safe here.


Came here to say the same thing. In Westworld the sense of self is the very last thing to develop in Arnold’s Pyramid/Maze theory.


Westworld is also a fiction that can construct any model it wants regardless of how people actually behave, so I wouldn’t use it as a counter to actual researched theories




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