I’ve been thinking about this man all night. He, alone among his peers, took an action with foreseeable and negative personal consequences. Whether spontaneous or planned, he made a choice that may well define the rest of his life, for good or ill.
I took the time to reflect on my own weekend, celebrating America’s independence against different totalitarian rule. I spent it with family, safe, free, and relaxed. I couldn’t help but wonder if i would have the fortitude of this man, even basking in the freedoms I now, blithely, take for granted. Base rates for humans show that amidst totalitarian regimes, most choose silence and going with the flow. While i like to imagine otherwise, I am a product of my culture - and self-protective.
Yet, this man, on one evening, said “here I am. And this is who I am.”
It is a magnificent thing to see people defend their civil rights. And it is the rational ting too: given the implications of the extradition bill, a few days on the street will seem a tiny price to pay.
And indeed, given ever growing intrusion into HK by the main land and ever increasing biometric surveillance technology, once on film, I doubt the surgical masks will provide anonymity for all the decades these folks will live.
A hero or idiot? The protesters are manipulated by someone behind, powerful and evilly smart people. All the protester's actions will not alter the decisions that have been carefully thought by the China gov. I am glad he has not yet formed a family, otherwise more people will suffer by this meaningless movement.
Crikey. This comment is interesting as an example a comment that is "manipulated". Thank you for the great example!
It's different from a troll comment as a troll comment will seek to appeal to identities and groups but this one is too harsh in its directness. A troll will sometimes be vague in their intentions. Perhaps this means it's an indication of truthful indoctrination or an indication of unsophisticated organised political marketing.
It's hard to draw broad strokes about this. But I really really deeply like HK.
One thing about Hong Kong that's a lot to take in is how western-friendly the culture is. I think there was a western news channel playing while I was on the MTR last time.
I am guessing some may find the rallies annoying. They may view them as hooligans, but even the cynical still are happy with HK being HK.
And it's a weird thing: Because it's effectively a client state constitution. heh. They have their own judiciary, they have their own case law, but the people of HK cannot amend their constitution.
P.S. I haven't read the latest part of the extradition law they're trying to pass (anyone have it?)
> One thing about Hong Kong that's a lot to take in is how western-friendly the culture is.
They might be friendly, but often they don't understand it fully.
Democracy isn't a silver-bullet that would cure all of Hong Kong's ills. And they're apt to label every change to be an extension of Beijing's reach.
For example, the change in school curriculum. No doubt that some of the content in there is objectionable to me. However, the often thrown around accusation is that singing the national anthem amounts to brainwashing. After emigrating in '95, I sang O Canada during the weekly assembly at school. I'm sure the Star-Spangled Banner is sung at American schools. I don't think a lot of them are aware of that.
Another example would be the customs procedures for the high-speed train in HK, in which they have harangued over and over. Canadian airports suffer from the exactly the same problem - US CBP operates at any Canadian airport. I did raise my concerns with my MP, and she did have an interesting argument. If a Canadian was to be detained, at least it would be far easier to provide support than if they flew into US, and then get detained at the US airport.
Or the case where the HKSAR government moving VJ day to line up with the mainland's VJ day date. Accusations of Beijing trying to erase history immediately flew. Honestly, under the Colonial system, they never taught us anything about that, or about remembrance day (I was there up til Grade 6). In Canada, they have no problems teaching students about it at Grade 6. I didn't even realize the scope of Canadian involvement until I went to the Canadian War Museum.
There is far more background context than a single article could put forth. But it's not hard to see HKers cling to the colonial past, when Hong Kong was economically bigger then, and mainlanders would bend over backwards if a visiting Hong Konger waves around HKD. Now the mainland economy and power is much bigger than Hong Kong, and to be fair, their increase meddling is really amping up anxieties. But it's so easy to focus those anxieties, and forget that the Colonial government shares blame for lots of the current issues plaguing daily lives there.
What praise do I give to this oppression (China's influence over HK) where people, even a single person out of many thousands, are terrified of revealing their identity in a protest?
It seems unpopular on HN, but there is something that westerners are missing that makes the phrase "Boycott China" sound racist, ignorant and preposterous. Why is it so "wrong" to properly, sternly and unapologetically criticizing China? Even saying things like "I don't support buying Chinese goods" sound insane on HN. WHY!? Why should people praise Chinese economic progress, lifting middle class and giving a middle finger to IP, Shenzhen philosophy of quick business, etc. at the cost of loss of liberty and freedom, and democracy?
It's similar to our love hate relationship with advertising. Almost all employed readers work for companies who are at varying degrees dependant on advertising and almost all have adblock enabled. We are compromised and conflicted.
The hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters had no masks. The small group who vandalized the Legislative Council wore masks because they knew they were breaking HK laws. Indeed, they would be arrested and charged for such actions in any country, including colonial HK, UK, or US.
While there are plenty of reasons you may dislike the behavior of the Chinese government, I don't think this is one of them.
On another note, I'm not sure why you would admire one of the very few violent extremists who embarrassed the otherwise peaceful HK democracy movement. Just because an extremist is willing to risk jail sentence by revealing his face, he becomes a hero?
Googling this man's name (Brian Leung Kai-ping) reveals a number of articles suggesting that he fled to the United States immediately after this event. However, I can't tell whether any of the web sites reporting this news are trustworthy. When I first read these reports I immediately dismissed him and his comments to the LA Times but now I wonder if the story of his flight is propaganda intended to negate his courage.
Also in their article, there are clearly many others in the photographs without masks. So I think his impromptu speech is more important than taking off his mask, but lots of articles cite removal of his mask..
Since this organization has no leader, it would benefit the opposition to paint a leader out of thin air and show faults in him.
Hong Kong reminds me a lot of Ukraine. They both want to be 'modern', 'western' and 'special', rejecting the 'backwards' ways of their imperial leaders. Unfortunately, their economic success was/is wholly dependant on said leaders, and they're shooting themselves in the foot by trying to break away.
No one in the west truly gives a shit about HK or Ukraine. We give them lip-service, but no one will go to war over it. We egg them on to stick it to China/Russia, and they get fucked.
The fact is, Hong Kong's entire success is due to the fact it was an entry point to doing business with China. Protesters have jeopardized that arrangement, Hong Kong will never see the same level of economic success (relative to China) again. Much like Ukraine which, without Russia as a partner, is now one of the poorest countries in Europe with a GDP per capita half that of Belarus', and a quarter of Russia's.
Hong Kongers want to be special, but they're killing the only thing which allowed them to be successful. After these protests simmer down, the west will forget about them again, having never done anything for them in the first place, and they'll be worse off.
>Ukraine which, without Russia as a partner, is now one of the poorest countries in Europe with a GDP per capita half that of Belarus', and a quarter of Russia's.
It was like this before the war. This was a big chance for Ukraine, to integrate with EU and trade with EU mainly not with Russia. Sadly Russian aggression changed that
The EU was never going to accept Ukraine as a member and never will, and they did reduce trade restrictions, but EU states don't want Ukrainian products. EU farmers already produce too much food, EU states won't eat Ukrainian foodstuffs since Slavic tastes are so different. The EU also doesn't want any more workers immigrating to richer states.
Also, Ukraine tried rapprochement with the EU after the Orange Revolution, but again, the west only wanted to use them to get at Russia, not to see them successful.
As for Ukraine's economic success, it's always been tied to Russia, and the successive revolutions have not been good for it. That's why every election after failed Euro-optimist governments can't deliver, Ukraine elects a pragmatic President.
Absolutely. Every western country should be supporting HK to the fullest right now. This is nothing short of an attack on fundamental human freedoms, and the west should be apopleptic. I'm a westerner, these values are extremely important to me, and I'm deeply embarrassed that we can't get our shit together enough to do anything about this.
There are certainly people who prefer living in a high GDP country in which they can be 'disappeared' one night along with their family, but I didn't expect to see them on HN.
I don't think that's exactly what op is getting at. Basically they're saying the west will give token support to HK and hang them out to dry later. They're saying the options aren't freedom vs. tyranny, but rather high vs. low GDP police state.
Exactly. Hong Kong's only real choices are to be an exemplary model of the 'two systems one country' model and wait for China to change, or to go against the grain and get crushed. Becoming a 'free', 'western' country is impossible.
Look at how press covers the story, how can you say no one is giving shit about Hong Kong. No one is giving shit about all other bad things around the world, but Hong Kong is not. It is something to do with China at least. It is a card can be played against China and it will always be people's interests.
I took the time to reflect on my own weekend, celebrating America’s independence against different totalitarian rule. I spent it with family, safe, free, and relaxed. I couldn’t help but wonder if i would have the fortitude of this man, even basking in the freedoms I now, blithely, take for granted. Base rates for humans show that amidst totalitarian regimes, most choose silence and going with the flow. While i like to imagine otherwise, I am a product of my culture - and self-protective.
Yet, this man, on one evening, said “here I am. And this is who I am.”
Knowing nothing else about him, he is a hero.