Anecdotally, everyone I know who works for Apple is paid below market rate. They justify it by reminding you that “you get to be part of the mission”.

I know one guy making market and he’s in the video streaming product group.

LOL what mission? Making fancy phones? Seriously what mission does Apple do? The mission to make money? Like every other company? LOL who would ever fall for this????????

I think this explains why Apple products-- software and hardware-- have fallen in quality: they hire people dumb enough to think working for Apple matters somehow.

> They justify it by reminding you that “you get to be part of the mission”.

That reminds me of the post from a few days ago on HN: "#### you: pay me!"

I think there comes a point in many (and I'd hope all, but I don't think it's true) peoples' careers where they realise that, in business, money talks and everything else is sadly just chatter.

Your attitude seems common, but I'm quite curious just how common it is.

Personally I totally happy with my current income and don't have any real interest in making more. I can pay my bills, buy anything that catches my eye, max out my 401k, travel to visit family. I don't turn down raises or bonuses, it is nice to have a little bit extra in case of emergencies. But an extra dollar doesn't mean much compared to the personal satisfaction of working on good projects.

Just curious. Have you done a serious analysis of how much you’ll need in your retirement savings to be able to live a comfortable life when you’re no longer earning (due to lack of desire to work or lack of opportunities to work)? Say you live till you’re 90. I’m asking because many times people think about the present and say they don’t need any more money, but don’t think about the future when they won’t be able to earn.

Somewhat. We've eyeballed the cost of living where we want to retire (NorCal Redwood Coast) compared to the many asterisked expected 401k returns and everything looks reasonable. The big gotcha in my mind is that I expect that once we get old then some big medical issue will hit one or both of us and drain any/all saving.

This is the same garbage every company feeds you to make you feel better about getting under paid. It'll only stop when unions are more wide-spread.

same here. and my friends all tell me "it's a good thing, because you know everybody working here are passionate". He told me that while he was paying for his lunch at the Apple cafeteria because they don't even get free lunch. I was very surprised.

Free lunch? Ha ha ha... my employer does not even have free coffee.

Sorry, I realise this could have sounded very precious :) In the context of big tech companies in Silicon Valley, free lunch is so common, not having it is worthy of being talked about in such a conversation!

Free coffee!? I have to _pay_ my employer to let me work there.

Luxury!

They also compensate security engineers well but they also seem like an exception to the rule