I really wish Google would sell a good value (Nexus level prices) phone again, so I can own a phone with stock Android. You can get good hardware for half the price of Google's pixel phones; the downside is the crappy Android versions on them.
(thanks for the suggestions on close-to-stock-Android hardware)
The Android One phones (https://www.android.com/one/) are running stock Android and provide 2 years of Android OS updates and 3 year of security updates.
Christ, being happy for “2 years of Android os updates” reminds me how awful is the android ecosystem.
IPhone 5s, a phone from 5 years ago is running the latest iOS without any problem.
iOS 12 has been widely praised for breathing new life into old devices with its performance upgrades. And even in the cases where there is a performance tradeoff, updating isn't mandatory, but it's still an option for those who want it.
It was widely praised, because it breathed new life into old (and not so old) devices that were utterly hamstrung by iOS 11 running them into the ground.
"Apple completely ignored performance on older devices for several generations until the complaints got too loud. Now let's act like that never happened, because they have put some effort in now."
> And even in the cases where there is a performance tradeoff, updating isn't mandatory, but it's still an option for those who want it.
Yeah. Except that many of the new Xcode updates to support iOS 12 involve builds that remove older compatibility. So sure, "you can still use your older iOS! Just ignore the fact that if your favorite apps are actively being maintained the chance they'll retain old iOS compatibility will be a rapidly shrinking one".
What? If you've had your favorite app on your phone for the past 5 years and refused to update in that time, then it'll still work? And in that case you're clearly not bothered by using old software.
People always demand new features, but want them on their old devices. Apple at least offers you the option.
Also, I don't see how that is different from an Android device that did not receive updates for 3 years and "your favorite app" that surely will be maintained for all eternity on an outdated system ...
These phones are also way cheaper than the iPhone5s was at its launch. If you pay $350 for your phone and replace it after 2 years, that seems to me to be better than paying $700 for your phone and replacing it after 4 years?
You'd be mistaken. That would be a lot of phones and hence a lot of (rare) metals being delved. Sadly, even something as precious as a mobile phone is a throw away product nowadays. I have no solution, it's us, consumers, who are doing this. But please don't pretend it doesn't matter. Maybe, just maybe, if we could innovate on the recycling of our old phones, it would matter less.
How about you quantify how much of an increase in waste it would be? My prior is that almost all appeals to waste conservation fall apart when you examine them in depth.
Ok, shooting from the waist. Say on average people use their phone 3 years. Say, we could stretch that to 4 years. Roughly 2/3 of the world population owns a phone, that's 5 billion phones. That means we would save 5 billion phones every 12 years, or: more than 400 million phones every year.
I love innovation as much as the next guy/gal, but getting all those products to 7.5 billion people is probably not (yet) sustainable for our planet. What if we could make (in this case mobile phone) producers (partly) responsible for the waste disposal/recycling of their products?
I guess because most of world on the Android phones buy handsets as pre-paid devices, using them until they either die or get stolen, so they aren't actually being replaced every 3 years.
As for security updates, yes it is a bummer, but not much better than what feature phones and Symbian used to offer, which was basically zero updates.
All the Apple stuff I have access to has been paid by my employer.
I am not doing contracts and their price ranges are out of what I deem as acceptable to pay for hardware as private user.
Google informs me that there are 20 to 50 million tons of electronic waste per year. 400 million phones, each phone weighs less than half a pound, so let's say 200 million pounds per year, divide by 2000, that means 100 thousand tons of electronic waste saved.
Less than a percentage point of reduction of purely electronic waste. This is what I mean by "almost all waste claims fall apart when examined."
It's a bit unfair to measure by weight, because mobile phones are light. One television, monitor or desktop computer can weigh more than 10kg, but may not have the same impact on the environment as 10kg/125g = 80 mobile phones. And besides, why stop with mobile phones? We're doing the same with TVs, now they're smart, but 3 year old apps don't work anymore, so: next!
Well, that's why I asked you to quantify things. If you have reason to believe that mobile phones punch above their weight in terms of e-waste, tell me exactly why, and how much. Does that mean that saving 400 million mobile phones per year goes from saving 0.6% of e-waste to 0.8% of e-waste?
And I'm not defending the practice of throwing out TVs or computers or anything else after 2 years, just phones.
Because, for example, your 3.5 year old phone has a way worse camera than a modern phone. It doesn't have wireless charging. Its hardware has deficiencies that are noticeable even if the raw speed of the CPU is still fine.
"consumerist thinking"? What other kind of thinking should a consumer have? And waste? My old Android phones are pretty useful even with marginally older software. None of them have non-patched remote execution bugs that would make them risky, thanks to the fact that some of the more risk prone components (built in browser, play services, etc) get updated independently from the OS.
Not very much. The resale value of a 4 year old iPhone is sub $100. Even if you get literally $0 for a 2 year old Android, you aren't changing the cost calculations very significantly.
Keep in mind that the phone manufacture is tasked with providing those updates for Android One devices.
It was once going to be Google providing them but they changed the site a while back.... that makes me skeptical about when / if you get those updates...
Google has been struggling to get manufactures to do updates and backpedaling on Android One's updates doesn't have me optimistic.
For people who want to buy phones in the several-hundred-dollar range, 2 years of official updates really isn't sufficient. My Nexus 4 lasted 4 or 5 years, the last few on unofficial firmware - but I shouldn't have had to use third party firmware on a device that was working just fine.
It's pretty disingenuous to compare Android and iOS like it's a 1:1 comparison. Google Play services and several other components get updated independently from the system. A Nexus 4 that is running the last official security patch still works "just fine" and gives you access to the majority of apps on the Play store.
While the update model isn't perfect and a bit concerning security-wise, if you want a device that "just works" for 5 years and won't be artificially crippled, Android wins.
I know someone who has an Android One Motorola, while they like stock Android, updates are still really slow for reasons unknown. There was also no beta during Pie.
Definitely isn't a full Nexus or Pixel experience unfortunately.
I find it really annoying that phones need so much hand holding from OEMs to keep up to date. Imagine the backlash if a Windows OEM said that: a.) you could only get OS updates from them, and b.) you'd only get 2 years of updates.
The death of the Nexus / privacy concerns is why I'm tempted to flee to Apple. I've never used an iPhone but if I'm gonna pay top dollar for a Google branded type phone .... why not consider an iPhone / the privacy concerns I have and etc too?
All the other Android manufactures have been so hit and miss I'm not really interested in them as an alternative.
If you're not constrained by the hardware, then take the time to install LineageOS (https://lineageos.org/). If you need Google's flavour of Android you can get it from OpenGAPPS (https://opengapps.org/).
I did it for my mom's phone and most recently my own (which until I hit some software issues was running Google stock). It's really easy nowadays, with some tech skills and assuming your phone isn't obscure.
I just got a Pixel 1 planning to do that very thing. I thought I was getting a great deal; they're about $200 on Amazon.
I ran into an apparently common issue where it won't connect to Windows through its bundled USB cable (or any other USB cable...).
Plugging it into my external monitor, which is also a USB hub, solved that problem. Except that in bootloader mode, it is once again unrecognized, making it impossible to unlock.
I just bought a $159 Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite (Android One/Stock, US ATT or T-Mobile Compatible) to replace my original Pixel XL and I can't tell much of a difference except for the Camera. It has a much smaller notch than the Pixel 3 and will receive updates I believe until 2021 or further. Some small corners were cut, but it punches way above its price point.
I have nothing but praise for Xiaomi products. They are phenomenal value.
I have a Xiaomi Redmi 4x, which cost me $140 and has perfectly smooth performance. The camera isn't terrible either, it does the trick. Best of all, spare parts are cheap and easy to find. I completely shattered the screen on my phone, it was only $20 to get a complete new screen assembly (lcd, digitiser, and frame), which I'm fairly sure is OEM. I broke the ear speaker in the process of replacing the screen, only $1 to get a new one shipped from China. I can literally make a phone from parts, I can even buy the motherboard on Aliexpress.
Xiaomi have really good build quality too, and their their custom version of Android isn't terrible.
I also have a Xiaomi bluetooth speaker that I bought for $30, which performs as well as a speaker 2-3 times the price. It's built out of solid aluminium too, so it can take an absolute beating.
I wonder how hard that would be to make work on a bench. Would be nice for messing with postmarketOS, especially if I could get serial out working. I think these still have to be "authorised" by Xiaomi to have their bootloader unlocked though...
It only doesn't support Band 12 but band 2 and 4 are the important T-Mobile bands which it supports. No other bands are used heavily. ATT is very compatible. Using T-Mobile around Seattle with the phone and have absolutely no issues anywhere.
For $159 I'm not sure what more you could expect. Band 12 would be nice, but I understand they need to cut some corners.
Nokia could be an option: they have big range of devices in various price ranges, build quality is decent, runs near stock Android and updates are one of fastest, compared to other brands.
Sadly, not all devices have unlockable bootloader and kernel sources for some are still missing.
I think that's what OnePlus is doing these days. Not sure if you have heard of this youtuber @mkbhd he recently made a video that OnePlus 6 became his daily driver from Pixel 2. OnePlus 6 devices already run Android Oreo based OS.
Yes... but. OnePlus prices are rising at pace. I think my 3T was £309 some 2 years ago in the UK, where the 6 is £519 and the 6T is expected to be more again.
Also, where the Nexus phones were supported for at least 3 years the 3T wasn't going to get Android Pie just 2 years after release, but it seems it now will (eventually).
I agree it's been filling the segment, but I'm not sure it's continuing to, sadly. Don't get me wrong, they still seem to be beating Apple and Google in terms of bang for buck, but they're definitely chasing up the ladder after them.
I got a OnePlus 3 based on this kind of recommendation when Google discontinued their reasonably-priced-phones strategy and came out with the Pixel instead.
It works fine, but it's so large that it hurts my hand. And OnePlus appears to be committed to making only comically oversized phones. Very sad.
Just my 2 cents, I own a Nokia 6.1 and bought it for the exact reasons OP had, a cheap stock android phone. Unfortunately the hardware is really poor and I still don't have Android 9 available to me yet. The camera is really really bad, it sometimes shows a photo has been taken and when you view it later it turns out the shutter captured whatever was in view 2 seconds later. Something is also really wrong with the audio firmware, music will just stop randomly followed by a loud pop, it's like a buffer overflows or something.
I got the Nokia 6 (2017) and can confirm that the camera was also very bad there. But security updates are still coming (just updated to patch level October 2018) and Android 9 has been announced to come at the end of this year, which is absolutely fine for me because that's a much better support than a lot of "premium" phones ($600+) get. Samsung's Galaxy S9 - its top smartphone - is still running Android 8.0 (8.1 is out since end of 2017) and it will get Android 9 not before next year.
Considering that the Nokia 6 costed me only ~$170 when I bought it a few months back, this is top value.
Grumble. The 6.1 was an emergency upgrade for dad when the Nexus 5X started bootlooping in the airport. He hasn't mentioned the camera (damn, the 5X set a really high bar for a $400 phone) or audio issues yet
One more alternative, buy used Pixels, I just bought a Pixel 2 yesterday for $325. Less than half what the Pixel 3 starts for. Sure, it is small risk but if you would prefer less risk you can get certified refurbished ones for just a bit more from Amazon or Best Buy. I live outside the US so I used ebay as they do international shipping. Lastly, you get 3 of OS and security updates (2 years from now of course since it is a year old), this is the first Google phone to get updates for this long, all previous devices were 2 years.
Using mi a2 for last 2 months. A android one phone. Stock android, no bloat, very good looking hardware.. Overall a good value, but software is slightly buggy (occasional heating, random boots) and no clear communication on software upgrade policy
> no clear communication on software upgrade policy
The "Android One" label communicates 2 years of updates.
Either way, it's a Treble phone with an unlockable bootloader (without any key requests even! just like old Nexuses). I flashed a GSI (unofficial Lineage 16) right after I came home from buying the A2 :)
Of course this Treble stuff is still pretty new and you need to hack around some things — for example, I had to remove some XML file to make Bluetooth audio work, and (when Magisk rooted) SELinux is blocking the Wi-Fi driver from automatically loading so I have to load it from a root shell manually after a reboot :D but that's perfectly acceptable for me.
A Nexus level priced value product running stock Android would cannibalize Pixel sales. Google made the Pixel a premium product specifically for those who care about stock Android. People who buy value phones don't care about stock Android.
> People who buy value phones don't care about stock Android.
What does this even mean? I mean, since there are no cheap stock-Android phones clearly anyone who buys a cheap phone doesn't only care about stock Android.
But it's absolutely possible for someone to (1) want a phone at non-"premium" prices and (2) want a phone running stock Android. The fact that they then have to pick at most one of those two because no one but Google makes stock-Android phones and Google have gone premium-only doesn't mean that they don't, or shouldn't, want both.
There are a bunch of cheap stock Android phones now from the Android One program. Nokia has the 3.1, 5.1, 6.1, 6.1+. Xiaomi has Mi A1, A2 Lite, A2. Then there's the BQ Aquaris X2, GM9 Pro, Sharp X1, Motorola One.
I bought the Nexus 7 Plus below 300 Euro. You can also get the Pixel 2 (and sometime in the future also Pixel 3) camera apk running on it in a modified version.
Side note: It has also one of the best cameras on phones in this price area.
I really wish someone would do another solid 7-8" Android (or ChromeOS) tablet. That felt like a perfect form factor - I could even still pocket it in a vest.
Alas, most of what's still on the market is either ancient (and not getting new Android updates), or cheap low-res junk, or usually both. The only exception seems to be MediaPad M5, and Huawei screwed that one up by reporting it to the apps as a phone rather than as a tablet; and then there's the whole shared antenna issue (basically if you use Bluetooth, your WiFi is an order of magnitude slower).
And I'm not holding much hope for sub-10" ChromeOS tablets. It seems that everybody just wrote that market off.
They probably mean the Nokia 7 Plus, which I also own. It's a fantastic phone and you get so much for you money! Seriously, I've owned the Nexus 4, 5, 5X and 6P and this is my favourite out of them all.
Thanks. Meant the Nokia as you said... I was too fast with typing and cannot edit anymore ;)
And I agree to your comment. I had Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 5, Nexus 5X and Nokia 7 Plus is the best so far.
(thanks for the suggestions on close-to-stock-Android hardware)