High stress, high pollution, rat race of a lifestyle, you are regulated and taxed on more things you even thought possible, and one of the worst imaginable places to try and raise a family. It has it's pros and cons, but I think we both agree it is certainly better than Silicon Valley. It's great if you are a young professional figuring out the world, but eventually people want their space and be able to stretch out their legs.
I am a tech worker raising my family in Brooklyn and it's quite lovely. Expensive, yes, but lovely. Whether you find it a "rat race" of a lifestyle or not is much more dependent on your internal psychology than the city itself.
It's tough even with a big tech sector salary. I don't know if your kids are in school yet, but the cost of living in a good school district or paying for private school makes things way more complicated.
Since this comment is attempting to be pedantic, I'll give you a pedantic answer: Yes I have access to google maps just like the rest of the world.
Serious answer: Yes, the landmass that constitutes Brooklyn is large. The landscape of the main neighborhoods that have gentrified over the years are not so big. If you actually live there you know which parts I am talking about.
Would you be willing to share the rough range of your household income? If you bought a house 10 years ago then it doesn't count, you can probably raise a family on almost any income in that case ;)
I'm raising my family in NYC, I disagree that it's one of the worst imaginable places to try and raise a family. There are a lot of activities for children, from the parks, to indoor play areas, to the libraries, etc. You can just about anything you need by walking. The public schools have been improving - you can try for one of the elite gifted and talented schools but even if that doesn't work out, there are many more good school options than there have been in the past. It's certainly not a cheap place to live, but I actually can't imagine a better place to raise a family.
I don't know if there's any more pollution than any other major city. There's no major manufacturing that happens in NYC, so the pollution would mostly be from cars. In general, the city is becoming less and less car friendly - they are seriously considering a congestion pricing program - so I would expect whatever pollution there may be to actually improve. Nevertheless, pollution has never been one of the major complaints of most NYC folk.
Yes, taxes can run high. You can always live outside the city if this is an issue but despite this, people prefer to live in the city as long as they can.
High stress is really more a virtue of your job, not the city.
There are many people who live here and don't want to live anywhere else. As they say, your bedroom is where you sleep - your living room is the entire city.
Until you try to raise your children somewhere elsewhere, I will take your comment with a huge grain of salt. Compared to where I am now, it just simply doesn't compare. I don't care about the city being my living room. My backyard is mountains, and trees, and fresh air, and creeks and streams, and endless opportunities for my children to go outside, get dirty, and explore.
If you don’t care about being in the city, and do care about being close to nature, then that’s an obvious choice.
That being said, I don’t want to raise my kids out there. I want my kids surrounded by many cultures, and to have access to the arts that NYC provides.
I hear ya. For me -- It was something about trying to go up and down narrow staircases to get to my upper floor apartment that I rent for 2,000 a month for 1300 SQFT and waiting for elevators holding two baby carriers with screaming babies that didn't sound appealing to me, especially when I can own, for about half the price (roughly 1,100), a 1900 SQFT house that I can walk straight into.
> High stress, high pollution, rat race of a lifestyle, you are regulated and taxed on more things you even thought possible
New York has incredibly low pollution compared to other cities of comparable size, especially in the US. As for "regulated and taxed on more things than you even thought possible"... are you sure you're not thinking of California?
Overall air quality is pretty good in NYC, but street level pollution is nasty. There isn't a day that I don't get huge whiffs of diesel exhaust or a weekend that i don't have to clean off black grime from my windows. Happens less so in cities where you're not surrounded by walls of buildings and heavy street traffic.
I think the air quality in in the city is only good because it gets quickly blown out to sea.
No I am thinking about my family and I and our experiences living there.
When I say Pollution, I am not just saying air pollution. I physically felt dirty the minute I stepped out into the street after getting ready for work. I would wash my hair and it would streak of dirt. The subway is absolutely filthy. Bathrooms anywhere but expensive restaurants are filthy. Sidewalks were filthy. Streets are filthy. The water that pools up at the sides of crosswalks was everywhere -- and was filthy. It's the definition of a big dirty city.
As far as taxes and regulation goes, yes California is getting crazy too, but no I am thinking about New York. The contrast was stark, especially when you move anywhere south of NY, which I did land in D.C. for a bit, and even that was better.
> When I say Pollution, I am not just saying air pollution. I physically felt dirty the minute I stepped out into the street after getting ready for work. I would wash my hair and it would streak of dirt. The subway is absolutely filthy. Bathrooms anywhere but expensive restaurants are filthy. Sidewalks were filthy. Streets are filthy. The water that pools up at the sides of crosswalks was everywhere -- and was filthy. It's the definition of a big dirty city.
When did you live in New York? This mostly reads like an outdated stereotype of the city from the 1980s. I grew up in Queens and lived in NYC until I was 18, and I never had to wash dirt out of my hair from pollution (unless I had been rolling around in a park as a little kid).
Hell, I was recently back in the city visiting family and was amazed at how much cleaner midtown has gotten over the past few years.
I was in NYC over the long weekend (I'm from Boston), and I can say wholeheartedly that the entire city is filthy. I'm sure relative to what it used to be, its alot cleaner. But relative to most other places, NYC is one giant pile of garbage. (For the record I love the city, and would consider moving there.)
It really depends where you are in the city. Take a stroll in some of the neighborhoods around Prospect Park, and you'll find downright pristine streets filled with single family mansions...
>New York has incredibly low pollution compared to other cities of comparable size, especially in the US.
This doesn't change the impact of pollution on health and quality of life. There may be plenty of reasons to live in NYC, but it having lower pollution than similarly sized cities is not one of them.
Glad to see NJ get some positive mention here. Been living in NJ all my life and it's always sad to see people bash it based on a few trips they've had on the Turnpike up around NYC.
The state really has it all. Expensive, but an excellent mix of suburbia, rural lands to the west and south, and (somewhat) easy access to one of the greatest cities in the world.
Everything but the weather. Lots of NJ transplants in Atlanta and Florida. They make the trip back up to walk the boards and rub elbows with their old friends for a few weeks but spend most of the year where it's warm.
This past year I moved from NYC (Queens) to Central NJ and it's been a positive experience. It's surprising how beautiful this state really is. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), those who's experience with NJ solely consist of driving along the Turnpike, or landing in EWR, really have no idea.
I grew up in NJ and still have family there and I agree.
It also an incredibly diverse state and, as of now, that diversity is reflected in the state government - more so, I think, than any state government in the country.
Yeah, but the public transit options make it realistic to live in lots of different suburbs that are much cheaper and much better for family life, which seems to be something you can't say about most of the other contenders.
The problem with these numbers is that adjusting an entire salary for cost of living only makes sense for people living paycheck to paycheck. The real question is how much wealth a tech worker can accumulate in each city. If you're saving 10% a year no matter where you live, you're best optimizing for salary and ignoring cost of living.
Except that saving 10% makes you a homeowner in some places and a roommate in others.
If you view your job as temporary pain and plan to relocate or retire before starting “real life,” that makes sense. If you’re trying to build a long-term sustainable and fulfilling life that includes a tech job, not so much. Nominal value in a bank account is useless; you need purchasing power.
Well, the argument is the same with respect to most consumer goods. The new XPS 13 is the same price in Wyoming and San Fransisco. Adjusting the electronics budget of a household for cost of living generally doesn't make sense, which was my actual point.
What kind of household is spending enough on consumer goods for that to matter? I am not exactly thrifty or a Luddite, but electronics, clothes, etc. have never been more than 5% of my spending. I don’t feel comfortable spending on travel at all given the Herculean savings targets needed for an emergency fund or down payment here. Rent is 67% of my outflows, followed by food (my main luxury purchase is not having to cook).
Regardless, good cost of living calculators don’t just take the ratio of housing prices, they use a typical consumer’s basket of goods, some of which may be the same price.
I live in NYC and the main difference I noticed about food in CA is how produce-centric it is. NYC food is incredible, but eating out usually means meat, cheese, and bread.
Even if you love meat, cheese, and bread, there are other cities that do it as well (pizza debates aside) or better. For example, the taco scene in NYC basically doesn't exist. The burrito scene is Chipotle-style places.
Frankly, the rent is just too high to be too innovative at a reasonable price.
