So, how can I launch a matrix client that has never been used before and chat, with only a dialup connection, in less than 4 seconds?
I can do that with IRC. I can do that with all IRC bouncers.
And it’s a daily use case for me, and many other users (mobile networks provide free 64kbps network in many places)
I’m not saying Matrix is bad, Matrix has some awesome properties (especially regarding encryption). And maybe someday it can become awesome, once it gains a proper binary transport system, which is more efficient and keeps a single socket open. And maybe then, we can finally replace IRC, XMPP, etc. But until then, I’ll keep working on improving IRC.
So, worst case this is 4 hits; one to /login (if you don't already have an access token), one to /directory to resolve the room alias to a room ID (if you don't already know the mapping), one to /send to send a message, and one to /sync (filtered to the room you care about, if you're mimicking IRC). In practice, this looks like:
$ time (
(curl -s --limit-rate 8K 'https://matrix.org/_matrix/client/r0/login' \
--data '{"type":"m.login.password","identifier":{"type":"m.id.user","user":"matthew2"},"password":"secret"}' -A '' --compressed &
curl -s --limit-rate 8K 'https://matrix.org/_matrix/client/r0/directory/room/%23riotdemo%3amatrix.org' -A '' --compressed) &&
curl -s --limit-rate 8K "https://matrix.org/_matrix/client/r0/rooms/%2eNNtfYnugaAKouPTJdp:matrix.org/send/m.room.message/uuid?access_token=$access_token" \
-X PUT --data '{"msgtype":"m.text","body":"test"}' -A '' --compressed &&
curl -s --limit-rate 8K -Gg 'https://matrix.org/_matrix/client/r0/sync' \
--data-urlencode 'filter={"room": {"rooms": ["!NNtfYnugaAKouPTJdp:matrix.org"], "timeline": {"limit": 20}, "include_leave": false}}'
--data-urlencode "access_token=$access_token" -A '' --compressed
) > /dev/null
real 0m3.258s
user 0m0.057s
sys 0m0.025s
...which signs you in, locates #riotdemo:matrix.org (which has 23 users), syncs 20 messages of scrollback from it, and sends a message, simulating a 64kbps link via curl's --limit-rate, and under your target of 4 seconds.
Now in practice, most Matrix clients (e.g. Riot) currently don't bother to lazyload the initial /sync response with filters, which is why it can be slow the very first time you ever log in on a device. But this is just a matter of optimisation work on the clients - https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/1846 and https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/2914 etc. Meanwhile, any app built on matrix-{js,ios,android}-sdk caches sync results locally these days, so the slow initial sync is only ever a problem on the very first login.
So, to be clear: HTTP is inefficient, but in practice it really isn't that bad. Can't wait to spend the time to switch to a proper binary transport system down the line, though, but to do so now would be premature optimisation.
Try it again with 1000+ user rooms, or even 8000+ user rooms.
The worst case I'm currently trying to support is a bridge for a game's chat system with 18'000 users in one channel (and users still expect the client to connect in 4 seconds on mobile, and be stable).
And without a custom binary protocol and lazy sync, Matrix will not support that. True, it's also at the upper limits of the Quassel protocol for now, but Matrix is even further off for now.
That said, as I mentioned above, if Matrix someday gets full support for a good binary protocol and real clients, it might truly replace IRC.
yup, agreed that we need better lazy sync for initial syncs to a room with thousands of users. this thread seems to have triggered a lot of interest in writing alt transports for matrix though; will be interesting to see what happens!
I can do that with IRC. I can do that with all IRC bouncers.
And it’s a daily use case for me, and many other users (mobile networks provide free 64kbps network in many places)
I’m not saying Matrix is bad, Matrix has some awesome properties (especially regarding encryption). And maybe someday it can become awesome, once it gains a proper binary transport system, which is more efficient and keeps a single socket open. And maybe then, we can finally replace IRC, XMPP, etc. But until then, I’ll keep working on improving IRC.