This is just a very abstract way to say that you don't like some of the things that the state has characterized as crimes. That's fine, and you can utilize the organs of representative democracy to make your will on that point known (though a world where only violent crimes are recognized, like you're suggesting, is not usually considered appealing).
However, attempting to trivialize the issue by abstracting it out to "giving a variable to a mathematical algorithm" is not persuasive. Any sort of cooperation could be extrapolated to a similar point of abstraction that makes it sound absurd; in fact, furnishing a physical key to a physical lock could be described with no modification to your terms. In that case, you're ultimately asking for the pattern needed to actuate the pins such that they stick up in the lock mechanism and cause it to disengage. That's just "providing a variable to an algorithm"; the physical key itself is an implementation detail.
If you do not believe the court should have the power to compel some types of individual cooperation with the police, you should take that up with your local legislator. The Fifth Amendment itself provides no such protection. It prohibits the government's usage of only a very specific tactic: mandatory testimonial self-incrimination. Allowing the police to execute warrants and complying with lawful orders pursuant to the state's interest in enforcing its laws is not testimony.
I'm sorry, but I didn't conduct any sort of ideological flame war. I simply stated my stance on the issue that the thread was about. Other commenters took up the mantle of twisting my words and forcing me to more clearly explain myself.
I didn't realize "gtfo" was too uncivil for HN. I generally do not use such language here, but...
Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation. Avoid gratuitous negativity.
I did not break that rule. I was not gratuitous about it and was trying to end an argument.
I understand that you think you know what this site is for, but my original comment was in line with the subject matter and was not flamewar bait.
And while I'm sure he does a fine job, I'm contesting his assessment of my motivations and insinuating that I broke any rule. You really like to drag things out. Why don't you just drop it?
>I am stating my views on state violence, and what power the state should have over others. And the state should never use violence, physical or psychological, to "compel" people to do anything.
This allows only for crimes of commission. Crimes of omission, like negligence, failure to pay taxes, etc., could not be prosecuted against this, because the state would be using its monopoly on violence to compel compliance with laws which impose affirmative requirements on individuals instead of merely enforcing laws that proscribe individual behavior.
Are you arguing only against indefinite detention on contempt charges or are you arguing against deploying state force to compel any type of active compliance?
>If they are a danger to society, then they can be locked away, but if they are not provably a danger to society in an uncompromised court of law, then that's it. Indefinite incarceration without legitimate reason is torture.
This isn't indefinite detention without reason. Habaes corpus is fully satisfied here. The government has given the detainee a rationale for his detention and, in this case, they've provided a remedy that he can employ to end his incarceration at will.
For the third time, I believe that the virtues of indefinite detention via contempt-of-court are dubious and that reforms are welcome. I'm not sure what you think you're disagreeing with here.
>Are you telling me if I have a problem with the way my state is run I should call my local Republican state representatives and not discuss my views on a mature open forum? Gtfo with that shit, this isn't your forum my dude.
Expressing your views to your state representative (not sure why the party of that representative is significant) is not mutually exclusive with expressing your views on HN. I was suggesting an option by which you could attempt to enact your views in order to clarify that those views do not reflect the current state of the law and would need legislative action to be realized. That has nothing to do with where you're allowed to express them.
If a citizen does not want to pay taxes, and if the taxes are fair and used efficiently, then they still should not be compelled but they can be denied all government aid as well as access to certain infrastructure, or possibly even deportation. None of these things compel someone to do anything.
If the person wants to live on their own, in the wild, then there is no reason our government needs to collect taxes from them. But do I believe someone should be jailed for not giving our country money annually to be spent on things they don't support? Absolutely not. I don't even agree with sales tax. Traditionally that tax is paid for by vendors, but in modern times it has been passed on to the consumer.
And this "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" mentality most folks have about things like taxes is something an abusive partner would say. Sometimes people can't feasibly go somewhere more in line with their beliefs, but they still choose to live peacefully on their own terms.
And believe me, I have attempted to communicate with my representatives and it is fruitless and now I receive spam mail I can't seem to get rid of. Even when I get direct responses, they are empty and simply say, "I get you feel this way, but this is how I feel."
However, attempting to trivialize the issue by abstracting it out to "giving a variable to a mathematical algorithm" is not persuasive. Any sort of cooperation could be extrapolated to a similar point of abstraction that makes it sound absurd; in fact, furnishing a physical key to a physical lock could be described with no modification to your terms. In that case, you're ultimately asking for the pattern needed to actuate the pins such that they stick up in the lock mechanism and cause it to disengage. That's just "providing a variable to an algorithm"; the physical key itself is an implementation detail.
If you do not believe the court should have the power to compel some types of individual cooperation with the police, you should take that up with your local legislator. The Fifth Amendment itself provides no such protection. It prohibits the government's usage of only a very specific tactic: mandatory testimonial self-incrimination. Allowing the police to execute warrants and complying with lawful orders pursuant to the state's interest in enforcing its laws is not testimony.