"Yes, they are. They're the only company that's realized that if you want a stable, integrated experience, you need to control the entire product, top to bottom."
I don't think that's accurate, on multiple levels. First, they aren't the first company to realize that. However, it is easier to have a stable, integrated experience when you control the product line. Which is what I've been saying this entire time. They essentially took the easy way to quality.
Which leads to:
"But ultimately, that's the only thing that really matters. I hate to be utilitarian about it, but the value a product brings to the end user is the only thing that matters."
I agree. And I never argued that. I said that from the beginning. I apologize if I came off suggesting that they made shoddy products. That was never the point nor my intention. =)
"I mean, I agree. I'm not saying you should be downvoted, I'm just trying to guess why others were. Hearing the same arguments gets really old, especially in a series of articles like these, which are basically just shouting matches of the same opinions, over and over."
I understand, but it's still stupid to downvote something just because you've heard it before. I've heard a lot of things before. Doesn't mean I down vote. Should I down vote every comment that has repeated something I've read before? If a comment doesn't add value, fine. But if it's a comment you are tired of, just ignore it and don't upvote it! And, I'm not referring to you, rather, I'm referring to the royal "you". =)
"I used to be obsessed with technical details, until I came to the startup world, where I realized it's all about value creation, not about the tech. It's disappointing, and we programmers tend to be an exceptionally meritocratic bunch, but really, even in the tech industry, tech is kind of irrelevant."
I agree. And that's a good point. I fully realize where Apple's value lies. However, that doesn't mean I'm not an idealistic thick-headed fool that's going to speak his mind, even when it's not the most popular. Being opinionated and stubborn has worked so far. =)
Basically, I just feel like Apple gets a lot of credit for doing things it shouldn't. They do a lot of really cool things, but at the end of the day, I realize it's not really that impressive when you realize the slate they have to work with.
Good questions/challenges. Sorry if you've had this discussion before. I've never really discussed this particular angle. Most of my friends aren't geeks!
> First, they aren't the first company to realize that.
I meant within the consumer computer industry, sorry. It's not like they invented vertical integration.
> I agree. And I never argued that. I said that from the beginning.
Okay. It's just with quotes like "they took the easy way to quality," you seem to be saying that the process means more than the end result. That's what this all boils down to.
> Good questions/challenges. Sorry if you've had this discussion before. I've never really discussed this particular angle. Most of my friends aren't geeks!
No problem. The first computer I ever used was a Mac, so I've been having these discussions forever. I was totally the little fanboy in 7th grade, holding my copy of MacAddict with pictures of those amazing new Bondi Blue and white G3 towers, arguing with my friends that (to quote Hackers) "RISC will change everything."
In any case, it's always great to have real-actual, in-depth discussion. Thanks just as much to you.
"Identifying and realizing "the easy way to quality" is impressive."
Except they aren't doing that. For 3 version multitasking was bad, and they told you why multitasking wasn't needed. Now, apparently, it's good.
As for others not being able to duplicate it, that's not true. Apple isn't the only place to find easy to us. Heck, half their stuff isn't easy to use. It's just as difficult and confusing as PC stuff. It just appears easier/cleaner. They have less wires. Just one look at iTunes and syncing Audiobooks with your iPod is a perfect example of how they dropped the ball.
I don't think that's accurate, on multiple levels. First, they aren't the first company to realize that. However, it is easier to have a stable, integrated experience when you control the product line. Which is what I've been saying this entire time. They essentially took the easy way to quality.
Which leads to:
"But ultimately, that's the only thing that really matters. I hate to be utilitarian about it, but the value a product brings to the end user is the only thing that matters."
I agree. And I never argued that. I said that from the beginning. I apologize if I came off suggesting that they made shoddy products. That was never the point nor my intention. =)
"I mean, I agree. I'm not saying you should be downvoted, I'm just trying to guess why others were. Hearing the same arguments gets really old, especially in a series of articles like these, which are basically just shouting matches of the same opinions, over and over."
I understand, but it's still stupid to downvote something just because you've heard it before. I've heard a lot of things before. Doesn't mean I down vote. Should I down vote every comment that has repeated something I've read before? If a comment doesn't add value, fine. But if it's a comment you are tired of, just ignore it and don't upvote it! And, I'm not referring to you, rather, I'm referring to the royal "you". =)
"I used to be obsessed with technical details, until I came to the startup world, where I realized it's all about value creation, not about the tech. It's disappointing, and we programmers tend to be an exceptionally meritocratic bunch, but really, even in the tech industry, tech is kind of irrelevant."
I agree. And that's a good point. I fully realize where Apple's value lies. However, that doesn't mean I'm not an idealistic thick-headed fool that's going to speak his mind, even when it's not the most popular. Being opinionated and stubborn has worked so far. =)
Basically, I just feel like Apple gets a lot of credit for doing things it shouldn't. They do a lot of really cool things, but at the end of the day, I realize it's not really that impressive when you realize the slate they have to work with.
Good questions/challenges. Sorry if you've had this discussion before. I've never really discussed this particular angle. Most of my friends aren't geeks!