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>Don’t tell us what to do with our animals

the animals aren't yours or anybody else's. They belong to that planet which we just happen to share. Human race, having achieved the ability to destroy the planet's eco-sphere, thus got a duty of steward of the eco-sphere which it has been carrying poorly so far.

Anyway, killing big game this days is a serious mental sickness.



How is hunting a serious mental sickness? Lest you forget your ancestors were very capable hunters, else you would not be here.


Big game hunting. Important words you dropped. And the reason it is a mental sickness is because they're not hunting for food or survival, they're hunting for the sake of destroying life.


You act as if these are inherently different. Things necessary for survival sometimes became pleasurable to do. This seems like just labeling behavior/desires one doesn't like as a mental illness.


> This seems like just labeling behavior/desires one doesn't like as a mental illness.

There is difference between desires and behavior. Inability to control desires resulting in a behavior intentionally damaging another sentient being(s) is a mental illness. Lack of empathy is a characteristic of psychopaths.


In which case, our over consumption of meat makes us a society of mostly psychopaths (not even counting the non-eating things vegans do that can harm animals).

I'm not to say you are fully without a point. Consider manual breeding of animals and what exactly is involved, which is done primarily for profit and which would be considered very anti-social behavior if done for more personal reasons. I dare say this is one place we are hypocritical as a society (compare treatment of dogs and pigs).


>our over consumption of meat makes us a society of mostly psychopaths

well, once the artificial meat comes into our life, only psychopaths would be consuming meat.

> (compare treatment of dogs and pigs)

things change. 10 years ago i was laughing at vegetarians, while since then i've stopped eating pork, beef, lamb, etc. because it is highly sentient beings. ( still eat poultry though. The day will come here too.)


>well, once the artificial meat comes into our life, only psychopaths would be consuming meat.

As a species, we have a well documented history of not going with scientific advancement and sticking to the old way. Also, why aren't they already psychopaths for eating pork (a very intelligent animal) when fowl and beans will provide them the needed nutrients?


>Also, why aren't they already psychopaths for eating pork (a very intelligent animal) when fowl and beans will provide them the needed nutrients?

Psychopathy is when injury/harm is caused intentionally. Most people just don't recognize what they are doing (in many situations they think it is acceptable to cause injuries to or to harm even fellow humans whom they value more than animals, and just 100 years ago it was ok to perform dissections on live animals without anesthesia). From my personal experience - it dawns slowly on you. I was a happy pork eater in the past. And at some point, when i really saw the intelligence of the animals (an amazing feeling by the way) - i have to credit my cat here, being among the most intelligent creatures i've met he taught me to see the intelligence of others - i backed off the mammals meat at least.


Take any group of cub scouts to the park, they see a duck, they reach for a rock. Its built-in. We are hunters.


If they were hungry enough, they would either reach for the rock or starve. Have you eaten any animal flesh lately?


>Take any group of cub scouts to the park, they see a duck, they reach for a rock.

any non-mentally ill adult present would use the situation to explain that it isn't acceptable.

> Its built-in. We are hunters.

yea. Hannibal Lecter.


Explaining what society condones has nothing to do with what built-in impulses Homo Sapiens possesses. What's your point?


Homo Sapiens doesn't possess those built-in impulses. Some sick members of society imprint that it on some others (usually early in their life), and with society putting some effort into it, that bad habit will be exterminated.


Evidence seems to contradict that Pollyanna view.


judging by your other comments, talking about evidence you probably mean your personal experience. Well, by the same token one would expect that people dealing with rapists would with the same validity talk about such Homo Sapiens built-in impulse too.


Really? My experience with the general population of youth in our area is similar in any way? This thread is off the rails.


That behavior not nearly as universal as you make it sound.


Wishful thinking? Give your own examples...


Or maybe, just maybe, that's the kind of stuff cub scouts are taught, or the kind of thing that they learn from their elders and role models?


Been taking scouts out for 20 years. First time they ever see a duck. They didn't need teaching.


Most definitions of mental illness, include, in one form or another, the question of whether the behaviour creates obstacles to live in a society. So, is it a mental illness or not, depends, by definition, on whether the society accepts this behaviour or not.


I think you might mean "lest".


Cyanobacteria achieved the ability to destroy the ecosphere and actually did it, leading to one of the greatest mass extinctions in history.

Did they have the "duty of a steward" regarding the ecosphere?

No. Neither do humans. There is no such duty.

We would be wise to maintain an ecosphere we find livable and convenient. Possibly, even probably, this includes protecting natural diversity and endangered species. We don't have to, of course. Humans are organisms like any other and organisms often engage in behavior that leads to their eventual extinction. I personally would also prefer that we try to maintain 'natural' ecosystems and diversity as much as possible. But that is merely a preference.

In nature, might makes right. We're a part of nature like any other. Killing big game (even for recreation, not just for food), a human behavior that goes back hundreds of thousands of years, is certainly not a mental illness. It might be wise (if you have the preferences mentioned above) to institute laws and norms against engaging in that behavior, particularly towards vulnerable species, but that doesn't make it an illness.


>Cyanobacteria achieved the ability to destroy the ecosphere and actually did it, leading to one of the greatest mass extinctions in history.

>Did they have the "duty of a steward" regarding the ecosphere?

>No. Neither do humans. There is no such duty.

How about the alien civilization controlling our sector of the galaxy - do they have the stewardship duty, in particular not damping toxic waste onto our planet, not hunting us?

>In nature, might makes right.

until a species develops to the stage when it recognizes that "right" has different definition.

>Killing big game (even for recreation, not just for food), a human behavior that goes back hundreds of thousands of years, is certainly not a mental illness.

Mental illness is a deviation from reasonable behavior for the species. It may have been reasonable yesterday, and not hunting was sign of abnormality back then. Time change and species change with it. We left a lot of things in the past which today would be considered a sign of mental illness, like human sacrifice for example.


> How about the alien civilization controlling our sector of the galaxy - do they have the stewardship duty, in particular not damping toxic waste onto our planet, not hunting us?

No. I would certainly hope they don't hunt us or use Earth as a dump, but there is no duty for them to not do so, or some kind of inherent right enshrined in cosmic law for us to have undisturbed development.

> until a species develops to the stage when it recognizes that "right" has different definition.

There is no development towards some kind of ideal morality. That's a colossally egocentric view to take. I'd say it's even rather ethnocentric since there are some cultures who, generally speaking, have quite different views than you do.

> We left a lot of things in the past which today would be considered a sign of mental illness, like human sacrifice for example.

Did we really?

Perhaps the rituals and names have changed, but imaginary alien anthropologists would not see much difference between abortion, martyrdom, death penalties, mob killings, voluntary euthanasia, some kinds of homicide, and the kinds of human sacrifice that occurred in our past. To be sure we would make our excuses, but the peoples of the past who committed human sacrifice also did not consider it abnormal or wrong and sometimes were so convinced of their duty they volunteered themselves for sacrifice.




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