It's a good question. To be honest, I'm still trying to get my head around how the UK electricity market works. Its complexity is definitely a big part of why so many reasonable people can end up disagreeing so vehemently... vanishingly few people understand how the whole thing works (and pretty much none of those who do are listened to by the politicians...)
Your question is good for another reason: you say "price" without qualifying whether you mean wholesale or retail (and, if retail, what individual households pay or what is experienced by industry). A lot of commentators and politicians routinely conflate the concepts to serve their own agendas in order to confuse non-experts.
If one looks first at the wholesale price, you're right that - in general - one would expect it to 'spike' when the gas prices shoot up. But on days when wind is dominant this has a minimal effect on retail prices, because the extra money paid to the wind farms (everybody gets the clearing price) is exactly offset by a reduction in the CfD payment. To repeat: consumers pay the same (high) price for most wind-generated electricity irrespective of the gas price.
So the interesting question, I think, is: what happens on days when the wind isn't blowing and gas generation is dominant? And here's the thing: if the price for gas-generated electricity (with carbon tax to account for the climate externality) is below the CfD strike prices, we're still ahead, even if it has spiked above its average. And because the CfD strike prices are so eye-wateringly high, this happens far more often than not.
Indeed, it was only for part of 2022 that the wholesale price was above the CfD prices and so the wind farms were paying money in to the system rather than taking out.
> I do think that wind has a part to play in the UKs long term energy mix, but by this point I'm happy to call the current scale-up a complete false economy.
Household and industrial electricity bills are double what they were in real terms 15 years ago.
The CfDs set a floor price when there’s lots electricity being generated by renewables but they also contribute to bills when the market price is over the strike price
Electricity bills are higher because we’ve had two fossils fuel shocks in the last 5 years and the costs for decarbonisation are added to electricity bills rather than gas ones
The amount wind farms in the UK have contributed back over the last ten years is a rounding error compared to how much they have received. It's not even close: https://x.com/7Kiwi/status/2031657347433603581
And the scary thing: the wind farms aren't even making that much money! Some projects have been cancelled and others had to re-bid in subsequent auctions to get a higher CFD price than they originally received because they couldn't make the economics work. Worse, there are reasons to believe they're not even fully provisioning for their end-of-life decommissioning costs.
The UK's energy policy is unbelievably destructive :(
He explains on his website where he gets his data from. He gets it from The Low Carbon Contracts Company... y'know: the firm who is the actual counterparty to the CFDs and so should probably know the actual sums of cash being moved - and in which direction.
And note: even when gas is more expensive than the CFDs, the huge fixed and/or policy costs (network build-out, capacity market, curtailment, etc) are devastating.
The story would be completely different if wind farms were actually cheap to build and run... the problem is they're just not.
I wish it were not so... it would be great if we had a path to being free of dependence on hydrocarbons. But in a battle between wishful thinking and physical and economic reality, reality usually wins.
So we're faced with a choice as a nation: continue to pour tens of billions of pounds down this drain... or call time on the experiment and free up all that money for something productive?
Thanks… I’ll have a read through though I’m highly skeptical of anyone who’s a member of Toby Young’s Free Speech Union… it says a lot about their political leanings
Cheers. No doubt there's additional nuance I've missed but I'm fairly certain he's directionally correct. And, if he is, we face some dire consequences as a nation.
Re the Free Speech Union, that's an interesting one and perhaps points to a broader point. It often feels to me that there can often be an asymmetry of risk faced by participants in some highly charged debates. I know this is a cliche, but there is definitely something to the adage that "conservatives think progressives are stupid, but progressives think conservatives are evil".
So it doesn't surprise me at all that the FSU was founded by somebody from that 'side': If you're debating in an environment when some (I stress some) of the people who may read your writings may actually think you're evil, as opposed to just wrong, it seems rational to invest in some protection?
In any case, I don't know Turver, but I have no reason to believe he's making this stuff up. He seems pretty rational to me, and does share his working. I'd urge you to remain open minded to the (scary) possibility he's right.
That’s because the price is set by the highest marginal producer
Most of the UKs recent renewables are on a fixed price supply basis and when the market prices goes over this the excess is eventually fed back into reducing consumer bills
Ah yes the standard "<excuse>...just be patient, any day now it'll get cheaper" response we've been hearing for years
I'm NOT against renewables. I'm NOT pro fossil fuels. I'm against the dishonesty in the discussion. Stop claiming direct reduction in bills if that's not going to happen [0]
High electricity prices aren’t really a thing for oil refineries as they’re capable of generating their own as Valero Pembroke does
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