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Why are these projects still on Github? Isn't it better to move away from Github than go through all this shenanigans? This AI slopam nonsense isn't going to stop. Github is no longer the "social network" for software dev. It's just a vehicle to shove more and more Copilot stuff.

The userbase is also changing. There are vast numbers of new users on Github who have no desire to learn the architecture or culture of the project they are contributing to. They just spin up their favorite LLM and make a PR out of whatever slop comes out.

At this point why not move to something like Codeberg? It's based in Europe. It's run by a non-profit. Good chance it won't suffer from the same fate a greedy corporate owned platform would suffer?


> It's based in Europe. It's run by a non-profit

The main SDL maintainer is paid by a US for-profit company, Valve. They don't necessarily share your EU = automatically good attitude.

But anyway, if Codeberg really takes off it'll be flooded with AI bots as well. All popular sites will.


> But anyway, if Codeberg really takes off it'll be flooded with AI bots as well. All popular sites will.

History might prove me wrong on this one, but I really believe that the platforms that are pushing people to use as much LLMs as possible for everything (Microsoft-GitHub) will surely be more flooded by AI bots than the platforms that are focusing on just hosting code instead (Codeberg).


> The main SDL maintainer is paid by a US for-profit company, Valve. They don't necessarily share your EU = automatically good attitude.

I'm not sure how one follows from the other. I am paid by a US for-profit company. But I still think EU has done some things better. People's beliefs are not determined by the company they work for. It would be a very sad world if people couldn't think outside the bubble of their employers.


In a "existential war" type situation, people who don't wave the flag and shout the slogans of their "home" country and have known sympathies for other places (any at all) will automatically be suspect, and their names will end up in a database for later use.

You can be assured that the leanings of Valve are always going to be USA, USA, USA, for reasons that will be clear when you follow the chain of ownership to its source.


Pretty sure Gabe's been partying it up in New Zeland ever since he got stuck there because of Covid

1) Gabe's a front man. He doesn't run Valve.

2) New Zealand is a favorite place for Western apparatchiks to build their bunkers. They don't move there out of a love for Kiwi culture and desire to integrate with the locals. Much like their interest in Wyoming/Montana also; they see a place they like, and they go take it over and drive out/murder whoever was there before.


Gabe may be a the front man, but he's still like the benevolent dictator for life of Valve. Kind of like how Linux Torvalds is the BDFL of Linux

> There are vast numbers of new users on Github who have no desire to learn the architecture or culture of the project they are contributing to.

The Eternal September eventually comes for us all.


How does something being based in Europe actually help anyone?

TinyCC's mob branch on repo.or.cz just got trolled with AI commits today. Nowhere is safe it seems.

> Why are these projects still on Github?

At this point, projects are already on GitHub due to inertia, or they're chasing vanity-metrics together with all the other people on GitHub chasing vanity-metrics.

Since the advent of the "README-profiles" many started using with badges/metrics, it been painfully obvious how large this group of people are, where everything is about getting more stars, merging more PRs and having more visits to your website, rather than the code and project itself.

These same people put their project on GitHub because the "value" they want is quite literally "GitHub Stars" and try to find more followers. It's basically a platform they hope will help them get discovered via.

Besides Codeberg, hosting your own git server (via Forgejo or Gitea) is relatively easy and let you do so how private/public you want.


>Besides Codeberg, hosting your own git server (via Forgejo or Gitea) is relatively easy and let you do so how private/public you want.

As I've seen it, there's a lot of git=GitHub going on. It wasn't even clear to me for a while that you didn't even need a "git server" and could just use a filepath or ssh location for example.


Yes, how dare someone take an idea, develop it, and publish it outside the algorithm-driven rage pit. Truly terrible behavior! /s

Expanding a thought beyond 280 characters and publishing it somewhere other than the X outrage machine is something we should be encouraging.


> This article is describing a problem that is still two steps removed from where AI code becomes actually useful.

But it does a good job of countering the narrative you often see on LinkedIn, and to some extent on HN as well, where AI is portrayed as all-capable of developing enterprise software. If you spend any time in discussions hyping AI, you will have seen plenty of confident claims that traditional coding is dead and that AI will replace it soon. Posts like this is useful because it shows a more grounded reality.

> 90 percent of the things users want either A) dont exist or B) are impossible to find, install and run without being deeply technical. These things dont need to scale, they dont need to be well designed. They are for the most part targeted, single user, single purpose, artifacts.

Yes, that is a particular niche where AI can be applied effectively. But many AI proponents go much further and argue that AI is already capable of delivering complex, production-grade systems. They say, you don't need engineers anymore. They say, you only need product owners who can write down the spec. From what I have seen, that claim does not hold up and this article supports that view.

Many users may not be interested in scalability and maintainability... But for a number of us, including the OP and myself, the real question is whether AI can handle situations where scalability, maintainability and sound design DO actually matter. The OP does a good job of understanding this.


This! The safeguards need to be outside LLM and they need to be deterministic.

Now I wish I could reject `git reset --hard` on my local system somehow.


You could use a wrapper that parses all the command-line options. Basically you loop over "$@", look for strings starting with '-' and '--', skip those; then look for a non-option argument, store that as a subcommand; then look for for more '-' and '--' options. Once that's all done you have enough to find subcommand "reset", subcommand option "--hard". About 50 lines of shell script.


Sounds like you care about data stored on your filesystem! Take one step back and solve that problem. Use a proper isolated sandbox, e.g. Github workspace on an account that is working with a fork.

Care about the data in that workspace? Push it first.

Othwerwise it is a cat and mouse game of whackamole.


Does any one of this help me if Claude runs `git reset --hard`?

If I am working in a sandbox, I have uncommitted changes in a sandbox and if Claude runs `git reset --hard` on those uncommitted changes in the sandbox, I've got the same problem?

> Care about the data in that workspace? Push it first.

But you're changing the problem. If I push everything, then yeah I've got no problem. But between pushing one change and the next, you're gonna have uncommitted changes, won't you? and if Claude runs `git reset --hard` at that time, same problem, isn't it?


Ok I contest. If you are worried about it resetting it's own work then yes. Although just chuck the same prompt and you should get a similar result amirite? Maybe a better one lol!

Also you can instruct it to commit and push at every step too.


Can’t you just run Claude in a copy of the directory without the .git folder?


Just fork git and patch that out? Can't be that hard just ask the agent for that patch. Don't need to update often either, so it's ok to rebase like twice a year.


Yes, exactly. People often overlook that, even with guardrails, it is still probabilities all the way down.

You can reduce the risk, but not drive it to zero, and at scale even very small failure rates will surface.


I'm not sure what the argument is here.

1. if the problem the post is suggesting is common enough, it is a bug and the extent needs to reduce (as you said)

2. if it is not common and it happens only for this user, it is not a bug and should be mostly ignored

Point is: the system is not something that is inherently a certain way that makes it unusable.


> and it happens only for this user, it is not a bug and should be mostly ignored

What if it happens for two users? (Still "not common").


Isn't this a natural consequence of how these systems work?

The model is probabilistic and sequences like `git reset --hard` are very common in training data, so they have some probability to appear in outputs.

Whether such a command is appropriate depends on context that is not fully observable to the system, like whether a repository or changes are disposable or not. Because of that, the system cannot rely purely on fixed rules and has to figure intent from incomplete information, which is also probabilistic.

With so many layers of probabilities, it seems expected that sometimes commands like this will be produced even if they are not appropriate in that specific situation.

Even a 0.01% failure rate due to context corruption, misinterpretation of intent, or guardrail errors would show up regularly at scale, that is like 1 in 10000 queries.


That's not how the systems work. Just by a thing being common in training data doesn't mean it will be produced.

> I guess, what I'm trying to say ... is this even a bug? Sounds like the model is doing exactly what it is designed to do.

False, it goes against the RL/HF and other post training goals.


> Just by a thing being common in training data doesn't mean it will be produced.

That's not what I said at all. I never said it will be produced. I said there is some probability of it being produced.

> False, it goes against the RL/HF and other post training goals.

It is correct that frequency in training data alone does not determine outputs, and that post-training (RLHF, policies, etc.) is meant to steer the model away from undesirable behavior.

But those mechanisms do not make such outputs impossible. They just make them less likely. The underlying system is still probabilistic and operating with incomplete context.

I am not sure how you can be so confident that a probabilistic model would never produce `git reset --hard`. There is nothing inherent in how LLMs work that makes that sequence impossible to generate.


It is meaningless to say that because the author was able to reproduce it multiple times.


> It is meaningless to say that because the author was able to reproduce it multiple times.

I don't know how that refutes what I'm saying.

The behaviour was reproduced multiple times, so it is clearly an observable outcome, not a one-off. It just shows that the probability of `git reset --hard` is > 0 even with RLHF and post-training.


If it reliably reproduces something undesirable with statistical significance, then it is a bug. It can be fixed with RLHF.


Yes, if something is reproducible and undesirable, it is a bug and RLHF can reduce it. I'm not disupting that. "reduce" is the keyword here. You can't eliminate them entirely.

My point is that fixing one bug does not eliminate the class of bugs. Heck, it does not even fix that one bug deterministically. You only reduce its probability like you rightly said.

With git commands, there is not like a system like Lean that can formally reject invalid proofs. Really I think the mathematicians have got it easier with LLMs because a proof is either valid or invalid. It's not so clear cut with git commands. Almost any command can be valid in some narrow context, which makes it much harder to reject undesirable outputs entirely.

Until the underlying probabilities of undesirable output become negligible so much that they become practically impossible, these kinds of issues will keep surfacing even if you address individual bugs. Will the probabilities become so low someday that these issues are practically impossible? Maybe. But we are not there yet. Until then, we should recalibrate our expectations and rely on deterministic safeguards outside the LLM.


When sampling from an LLM people normally truncate the token probability distribution so that low-probability tokens are never sampled. So the model shouldn't produce really weird outputs even if they technically have nonzero probability in the pre/post training data.


> I'm with you on all points except for it being bought.

Stars get bought all the time. I've been around startup scene and this is basically part of the playbook now for open core model. You throw your code up on GitHub, call it open source, then buy your stars early so it looks like people care. Then charge for hosted or premium features.

There's a whole market for it too. You can literally pay for stars, forks, even fake activity. Big star count makes a project look legit at a glance, especially to investors or people who don't dig too deep. It feeds itself. More people check it out, more people star it just because others already did.


> But what I think is an even better solution is to do it at the content level: sign the content, like a GPG signature

How would this work in reality? With the current state of browsers this is not possible because the ISP can still insert their content into the page and the browser will still load it with the modified content that does not match the signature. Nothing forces the GPG signature verification with current tech.

If you mean that browsers need to be updated to verify GPG signature, I'm not sure how realistic that is. Browsers cannot verify the GPG signature and vouch for it until you solve the problem of key revocation and key expiry. If you try to solve key revocation and key expiry, you are back to the same problems that certificates have.


Signatures do have similar problems to certificates. But Gemini doesn't avoid them either and often recommends TOFU certificates. I think the comment's point was that digital signatures ensure identity but are unsuitable for e-commerce, a leading source of enshittification.


> you are back to the same problems that certificates have.

Some of the same problems. One nice thing about verifying content rather than using an SSL connection is that plain-old HTTP caching works again.

That aside, another benefit of less-centralized and more-fine-grained trust mechanisms would be that a person can decide, on a case-by-case basis what entities should be trusted/revoked/etc rather than these root CAs that entail huge swaths of the internet. Admittedly, most people would just use "whatever's the default," which would not behave that differently from what we have now. But it would open the door to more ergonomic fine-grained decision-making for those who wish to use it.


How about in-ear earphones? They use silicone tips, right? Are there any known harmful effects of those?

The study names brands like Bose, Panasonic, Samsung, and Sennheiser. What about Apple airpods? Anyone knows what's that made of and if they've got any harmful effects?


Silicone doesn't require plasticizers (because it's elastic on its own) or fire retardants (because it doesn't burn easily). The material itself is also considered biologically inert and is less affected by temperature, solvents, etc. So it's usually the best choice for stuff like that. The reason it's not as common is that it's more expensive and not as durable. It has relatively poor abrasion and cut resistance.

But then, I wouldn't worry about headphones at all. You probably sleep on a mattress made from polyurethane foam that contains plasticizers and fire retardants in much greater quantities. The same goes for your car seats, and they off-gas a lot more when parked in the sun. You'd probably need to eat 1,000 earbuds to match that.


Here's a link to the study, which lists the results of each individual device they tested toward the end: https://arnika.org/en/publications/download/2128_f40ae4eb2e6...

AirPods were rated "green" across all three of their test categories.


Airpods weren't.. gen 2 (the only version, and Apple product they tested) were.


Tomato tomato.


Have they invented plastics that are good for your hormones?


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