Forgive my pedantry but it's not TOR[1] and never was, this is bordering on painful to read.

[1]: https://support.torproject.org/#about_why-is-it-called-tor

I appreciate the pedantry! It's a habit I should break from. Can we agree at least that it's not as bad as ToR?

Interesting read. I've thought about this for a while.

My woes with the site is that my connection to any of the clearnet domains seem to get black holed, or completely blocked by Cloudflare while using Tor. The onion site works fine for viewing, but to archive pages I need to complete the extremely difficult Cloudflare CAPTCHA.

The captcha page looks like cloudflare, but I don't think they're using cloudflare, haha. They use recaptcha (not sure if that's possible with cloudflare), the `server` header doesn't == 'cloudflare', accessing by direct ip gives "hello world" instead of the "Direct IP access not allowed" cloudflare message, /cdn-cgi/trace isn't accessible.

Not sure why they do that. Is it just because it looks decent, or is it poking fun, maybe because of their issue with 1.1.1.1?

>The captcha page looks like cloudflare, but I don't think they're using cloudflare, haha.

That's amazing, I never bothered to take a look once I saw that page but I did just now, and you're right. Google reCAPTCHA skinned as Cloudflare, hysteric.

Yes.

>unless you enjoy solving captchas as a hobby it is only worth using when you actually need some anonymity.

Use services that respect your freedom. Hacker News works just fine using Tor Browser. ;)

>Tor itself is full of scams and dark markets selling who knows what.

Did you forget to read the article? They make the point that this is not the case. Tor Browser can be used to access most of the web besides aggressively anti-privacy platforms like Meta.

If you choose to go on a "Dark Web Search Engine" and that's what you find, that's entirely your decision and not something you would stumble upon.

>but normal people aren't going to put up with that. Nobody wants to see that stuff.

They would never see that stuff by accident, as they never do right now.

No it wouldn't. You can use difficult to obtain cookies or registration to prevent bots.

I use Tor for everything that doesn't require identification, and I use very few of those services. For example, this HN account and the email for it have never been used without connecting through Tor. Feel free to ask me anything.

>There are sites that I have been unable to get working

This happens, most of the time because of Cloudflare. A solution is to get a new Tor circuit 3-5 times, and then the page will load. If a site simply won't work, like Meta platforms I won't use them. Using alternative front-ends[1] makes most sites that usually wouldn't work, work as well.

>The Tor browser does help here, by not easily allowing obvious mistakes like using http.

This is false, HTTPS only is enabled by default in Tor Browser. It's common knowledge for everyone including users of Google Chrome and Firefox to not use HTTP sites.

[1]: https://github.com/mendel5/alternative-front-ends

Thanks.

> This is false, HTTPS only is enabled by default in Tor Browser

I think you misread me. I said the Tor browser does help here.

>I think you misread me. I said the Tor browser does help here.

My bad, you're right! That shows my bias when it comes to this topic, way too much FUD.

>Personally for me it is about the traffic that may be routed through my computer by the Tor network

No traffic is routed through your computer by using Tor, running a relay is a completely separate thing that can't be done by accident.

Whonix builds on much stronger concepts than Tails, as malware with root privileges cannot discover the users real IP address since it simply is not aware of it. It uses an internal VLAN to connect to Tor on a separate virtual machine. This design has proven to be far less vulnerable to leaks, with a track record of 10+ years.[1] However it is not a live system, and you have to trust the host operating system that you run it on as opposed to Tails where you boot into a secure environment where ever, as long as you trust the hardware.

>Whonix consists of two VMs: the Whonix-Gateway and the Whonix-Workstation. The former runs Tor processes and acts as a gateway, while the latter runs user applications on a completely isolated network.

>only connections through Tor are permitted.

>DNS leaks are impossible.

>Malware with root privileges cannot discover the user's real IP address.

See also technical introduction: https://whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Technical_Introduction

[1]: https://whonix.org/wiki/Whonix_against_Real_Attacks

That is a great explanation. I would only add to this that QubesOS [1] has been designed to take advantage of everything you describe and even take it a step further using multiple VM's for further isolation. Whonix is one of their default implemented VM templates. They make it easier for someone to use Tor in a safer configuration.

[1] - https://www.qubes-os.org/intro/

Whonix: A High Security Method of Surfing the Internet

Whonix is a desktop operating system designed for advanced security and privacy. Whonix mitigates the threat of common attack vectors while maintaining usability. Online anonymity is realized via fail-safe, automatic, and desktop-wide use of the Tor network. A heavily reconfigured Debian base is run inside multiple virtual machines, providing a substantial layer of protection from malware and IP address leaks. Commonly used applications are pre-installed and safely pre-configured for immediate use. The user is not jeopardized by installing additional applications or personalizing the desktop. Whonix is under active development and is the only operating system designed to be run inside a VM and paired with Tor.