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Application-specific metrics are the way to go. For ML training this is one example: https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/g...


Nice, seems like ML Productivity Goodput is a pretty well thought-out metric to understand the overall efficiency of your cluster. I'll consider adding this into our cluster management platform. Only potential drawbacks I'd guess are it being somewhat difficult to compute since it relies on metrics like MFUs, and not something we can observe layer-by-layer to understand inefficient kernels, but I'll take a deeper look. Thanks!


AFAIK all efforts in that direction were way too costly a few years back and degraded models considerably. Spotify, for the longest time, only trained on an equivalent of manually curated playlists by experts and users to understand similarity.


Yup, we can close the thread and ack that GitHub does not care.


There's good points the author makes about problems in interviews + some economical facts but pieces like:

> Sorry, you’re not qualified to be a professional software developer because you wore the wrong color shirt to the interview. You should know the color buleruplange is triggering to generation delta

Just make me feel like I wouldn't like to work with this person.


Would appreciate data.


I gave it up above


Then don't make claims you can't justify :)


> Then

doesn't make any sense. I did justify them and told you where.


(?)


Many Googlers are not comfortable with that.

Lots of them are immigrants who understandably don't want to be associated with US-endorsed genocide.


Googler opinions are all over the map. Not all immigrants are Muslim, you'll find Jewish ones also, and it isn't surprising their opinions would differ.


Isn't it anti-semitic to imply that Jewish people are genocide supporters?


That's not the implication here.


Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide? A lot of Israeli citizens are against it, too, and only a US veto prevented the UN from condemning it


> Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide?

No, mostly Muslims see the use of your own people as human shields as very distasteful, and are more likely to blame Hamas for high Palestinian casualties than the IDF. In fact, bringing up IDF's supposed atrocities without also addressing Hamas's willingness to "fight to the last Gazan" seems very disingenuous.

What did Gazans think would happen after October 7th? And the response seems to have been "We must support Hamas even more", I don't know, eventually they need to address that, or they are going to lose the support and sympathy of everyone outside of the Muslim world.


This reeks of propaganda - I don't accept the nonsensical premise that a terrorist group is somehow forcing a vastly superior military force to kill this indiscriminately, and I especially don't buy that civilians somehow invite their own deaths by not supporting the regime that is actively killing them right now. I think most people, regardless of religion, nationality, creed, or ethnicity, find the way the IDF is going about this appalling

Also, as a minor side-note, you manage to contradict yourself even in this short reply, first claiming that muslims by and large don't support Gaza, but then concluding by claiming that somehow the Gazans being bombed in their homes are behaving so egregiously that they'll soon lose the support of everyone "outside of the Muslim world". I'm not surprised you can't keep your argument straight, as its logic is incoherent in the first place, barely making sense even in this ridiculous framing of the conflict


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yeah you're right, it's a nakba. something far worse. once the sanctions come down the american public will get learned on their history.


The Nakba was a Nakba because the countries surrounding Israel lost the war after they attacked Israel. Indeed they probably had genocidal ambitions.


The Nakba was (and still is) a Nakba because ...

The colonizers sought to impose an objectively unfair partition plan (granting them far more valuable territory and resources in proportion to their population at the time), with the muscular support of their European friends.

The Palestinians rejected this "proposal" outright of course, exactly as any self-respecting people would. Exactly as the Algerians rejected France's proposed "partition" of their historic homeland, and the Vietnamese (by and large) rejected America's proposed carve-out of theirs, etc (just to pick a few notable exactly from approximately the same time frame).

And yes, they made some poor choices of friends (as they readily acknowledge), and woefully miscalculated their own strengths and capabilities and so on. And then there are other factors you're carefully not mentioning, such as the expulsions and massacres already underway in Jaffa, Deir-Yassin and elsewhere before this supposedly entirely unprovoked and one-sided "attack".

But there's no reason to keep punishing the current population for these decisions, and exploiting this history (and the continuing indifference of both their so-called friends in the Arab world and the international community at large) for the sake of current and future land gains. Which is basically what the continuing (having of course never really ended) Nakba (that certain very notable public figures are proudly and openly hoping to officially upgrade to Nakba 2.0, in their own words -- do we need to name any names here?) is really about.

And whatever is happening in the ground today (and however much blame can justly attributed to both sides) -- there's nothing to be gained from nullifying history, or reducing it to such trite oversimplifications as in the parent comment.


Even before the existence of Israel there was an active arabic nationalism and Jews were discriminated against.

Israel is not a colonial power. The British split the land between Muslims and Jews.

The only problem is that some pushing for Arab nationalism couldn't stomach the existence of Israel or Jews in general. The land Israel was founded wasn't prosperous at all, on the contrary. Many years of cultivation made it the place it is today. I don't know what partition you reference as unfair here.

And that is true to today. If you look at the education of kids, you know who really has genocidal ambitions in this region and it isn't Israel.

> this supposedly entirely unprovoked and one-sided "attack"

Israel has the right to fight until the hostages are released.

The real "catastrophe" is the leadership of Palestinians, its teacher keeping the hatred against Jews alive. These are the perpetrators of the current conflict. Israels part is that itself has a problem with rising extremism. In this case it is a reaction to decades of conflict and hatred. That is no excuse but the same is doubly true for those that want to expel the Jews again and take their people hostage.


> The land Israel was founded wasn't prosperous at all, on the contrary. Many years of cultivation made it the place it is today.

This belief demonstrates either a fundamental ignorance or a deep disrespect for this land and the people who have lived there for thousands of years. There was—and still is—a major olive industry. It is not a coincident that Israeli settler terrorist target and destroy olive plantations from Palestinians on the West Bank. Cities like Lyd and Gaza had a major tourist industry before 1948.

The land Israel was founded on wasn’t prosperous for the only reason that the people that had it and knew how to use it were kicked out of there, and replaced with people who didn’t (yet) know how to use it.


Gaza has been an an important port in the east mediterranean. As you would expect any shoreline in the mediterranean to have trade and cultural vibrancy. https://youtu.be/QUCeQt8zg5o?feature=shared


More to the point -- the land was plenty "prosperous" to the people who lived there. Whatever uses for that land that outsiders deem to be prosperous (for them) are completely irrelevant.


Looks like we disagree axiomatically about certain things.

But life is short, so I'll just respond to one particular item for now:

The only problem is that some pushing for Arab nationalism couldn't stomach the existence of Israel or Jews in general.

No, the "only problem" was a bunch of armed foreigners attempting to carve an ethnostate out of their ancestral territory. They could have been Greek, Italian, Russian, Turkish, Persian -- it wouldn't have mattered a bit. It was the usurpation of their land, their resources and their rights that took issue with, and rightly so.

So no, it wasn't "because antisemitism".


We do indeed disagree on premises. Arab nationalism was first founded in the 19th century and directed against Turks. Later it had other ambitions of course. And yes, the idea was the foundation of an ethnostate. Pretty much was you accuse Israel of being, while it simply is not true.


This narrative is ahistorical. The nationalism movements of the 19th century were all over the world, and against most empires, not just the Ottomans. So the new found Arab nationalism was new, just like Serbian or Greek nationalism was new, we also had a new found Irish nationalism and even Icelandic nationalism in the 19th century. Even zionism started as a 19th century ideology.

Nor was the nationalism movements of the 19th century necessary a call for an ethnostate. It was first and foremost a call against empires and for own governments over own nation states. When there were calls for ethno-demographic policies to maintain a supremacy of one ethnicity over others, those were aside policies which differed among proponents of nationalism. These policies were equally—if not more—prominent among empires, than nation states. Even among zionists, only a portion of the original 19th century zionists actually wanted to displace Palestinians (or other indigenous populations of wherever they would establish the jewish state) upon migration. That is only a portion of zionists wanted an ethnostate.

So no, nationalists of the 19th century—arabs, europeans, and others—did not necessarily want an ethnostate.

EDIT: That all said, it is a bit odd to excuse a very real and existing ethnostate, by citing a theoretical ethnostate which never actually existed and at best had very limited support among the public and rulers at the time.


It is neither a narrative nor ahistorical in contrast to your claims. A 10 minute walk through Israel would significantly deny your suggestion about it being an ethnostate.

That isn't some misinformation on your part, it is just a malicious lie.


Please do not throw the accusations of malintent when the truth presents otherwise, by not just a 10 minute walk.

Here is an excerpt from the Judicial examination of the nature of Israeli state by it's own judges.

>At their center stands the right of every Jew to immigrate to the State of Israel, where the Jews will constitute a majority; Hebrew is the official and principal language of the State.

The state forces the nature of State, and it's principal language, on what was predominantly an Arab place, with settlers Speaking Yiddish, German, Polish and Russian. Moreover it gives a right to unchecked immigration to one ethnicity.

And it moves it's own population to occupied areas in West Bank, with freedom to carry and use assault weapons, and to Golan heights, etc in violation of humanitarian and legal aspects.


What has that to do with anything? I stay with that accusation as long as there are accusation of Israel being an ethnostate at least. With so many languages an ethnostate is seems even more unlikely, but that is another matter.

Fact is Israel is the country most friendly to any minority in the wider region and the adaptation or ignorance of facts here is quite telling.


Even if that is true—which I doubt[*]—it is completely irrelevant to the question of ethnostate. The question of ethnostate is if the country has practices and policies to control the demographics that favors the dominating ethnic group. A country could be very friendly to minorities but still control the demographics in favor of the dominant ethnicity. The immigration policy of Israel, the carving out of the West Bank, the policy of settlements in the West Bank, all work together in demonstrating that Israel does indeed have practices and policies to control the demographics to favor the dominant ethnic group.

Just a case in point, if we look at historic ethno-states, Apartheid South Africa had dozens of languages. But they still had a policy of carving out bantustans and deporting people into those bantustans, with the hope that the demographics in the remaining South Africa would favor the dominant racial group. Apartheid South Africa was an ethno-state.

That said, Israel obviously is not the most friendly to any minority in the wider region. Israel is currently engaging in an ongoing genocide against a particular minority, they are illegally occupying their territories, and—as the ICJ has just ruled—they are engaging in apartheid against this minority. When all this is evident, how can you say they are “friendly” towards that minority?

---

*: There are millions of metrics to measure this, and you could surely point to the few which conveniently “proofs” your point. You’re not even doing that, so I highly doubt.


Since this is HN and threads are supposed to be more interesting as they get longer, I might mention the neither subtle nor important different between Apartheid and Ethnocracy. It is not an important difference because either is demonstrably bad and shouldn’t happen, neither is it subtle because one portrays to civil rights (as in denying civil rights to a minority) and the other is about demographics (as in controling the demography to favor a certain ethnic group).

The Jim Crow south in the pre civil rights era USA was an apartheid, as the legal framework denied civil rights to Black Americans. It was not however an ethno-state as there was no policy of controlling the demographics of Black Americans. The eugenics movement tried to change that, and if the Eugenics movement had been more successful it is highly likely that some of the states in the USA would have become ethno-states.

In Israel the practices and policies in the West Bank are apartheid, and policies of preventing immigration from occupied territories into Israel, and establishment of Jewish settlements inside the West Bank are behaviors of an ethno-state.

So just like Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa, Israel maintains both an apartheid and an ethnocracy.


A 10 minute walk through Israel ...

"But the dominant group in Israel has internal diversity; therefore it can't be the dominant group" -- is that the counterargument, here?


No, that would be contradiction. Do you try to imply that a country having a "dominant group" is something that would form an ethnostate?

Perhaps I lazily assumed the parent would refer to ethnicity when throwing the accusation of an ethnostate around? Which ethnicity would that refer to in your opinion? It should be possible to answer that question if the accusation is in any way substantial.

Some ethnicities (and religions for that matter) might have serious problems in the wider region. Many do flee to Israel for safety in that case. That is the reality here and I would say that this fact is pretty hard to dispute without pointing fingers at less fortunate circumstances that maybe lead to less tolerance than there is in Israel.


That a country having a "dominant group" is something that would form an ethnostate?

Of course the fact of one group being dominant is not sufficient; there need to be deeply structural (legal) mechanisms in place for that group to maintain its dominance, which has certainly been the case with Israel since its very founding.

You may consult the definitions in Wikipedia as to "ethnostate" and "ethnic group" for further detail if you wish.

Which ethnicity would that refer to in your opinion?

The one referred to in Sections 1, 5, 6 and 7 (and whose language is given preferential treatment in Section 4) of the Nation State Bill.


There is no article about an ethnostate but if you use the widest possible definition of ethnicity and this ethnicity forming a common state would be considered an ethnostate, I guess Israel would be an ethnostate too. As probably most if not all other countries in the world as well. What would your criticism of that be specifically?

Again, minorities often try to flee to Israel for different reasons, not the other way around. This is easy to observe.

Then Syria is an ethnostate as it is called the Syrian Arab Republic. Egypt is an ethnostate, as it is called the Arab Republic of Egypt. I believe the pattern is obvious?

I cannot shake the feeling that some might utter this criticism because in case of Israel it would likely be a Jewish majority nation. But the existence and political participation of non-Jews makes it clear that you try to use ethnostate differently.


I’m not an expert in Israeli law, but I’m sure quite a few laws in Israel meat the definition of ethno-state, which is practices and policies that favors shifting the demography in favor of a particular ethnic group. Wikipedia actually has a few examples of laws which meet the criteria[1], including the nation state law.

If we look at the practices it becomes very clear that Israel meats the criteria of being an ethnostate. The immigration policy prohibits a single ethnic group (Palestinian Arabs) from immigrating, while creating the conditions for that same ethnic group (as well as others, such as Bedouin) to emigrate. The conditions for emigration includes confiscating land, limiting mobility, etc. In the occupied territories these practices become abundantly clear, and we even have an ICJ case backing this narrative[2].

Ethno-states are actually quite rare in history, you need a pretty strong military or police to enforce demographic policies, and before industrialization most states didn’t have that. Ironically one can argue that Roman Judea would meat that critearia when they expelled all the Jews. Notably they didn’t have the same ethno-demographic policies in neighboring Galilee, hinting that this was an expensive policy which the Roman state deemed not worth the costs. After industrialization ethno-states become a much more viable option, but we still mostly see them as a single ethnic regions of empires, most commonly via settler colonialism, where the settler are the ethnic rulers. And even then the policies were usually short lived as local population pushed back.

Syria does not have practices and policies to shift the demography in favor of one ethnic group at the cost of another, and neither does Egypt. One can argue that Turkey does (against the Kurdish people) but this does not come anywhere close to the ethnic policies enacted by Israel today.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy#Israel

2: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/186


Again, it is not the simple fact of a dominant majority that make a country an ethnostate; it is this plus legally codified structures of dominance. The article on the subject is under 'ethnocracy' not 'ethnostate':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy

There may be other countries in the region which satisfy this definition also, or fall on the spectrum; I do not single out Israel for criticism in this regard. The topic only came up in regard to the events 1947-1948, specifically the UNPPP -- and why the indigenous populace were not exactly celebrating this proposal or its likely consequences (which are of course now their day-to-day reality).

In regard to those consequences, specifically: the creation of an ethnostate on a large portion of their ancestral homeland; dominated by foreigners, and intrinsically and permanently hostile to their well-being and their right of self-determination.

Which they naturally opposed, as any self-respecting people would.


Related, Database of discriminatory laws in Israel:

https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index

Regarding the myth of a diverse legislator negating an ethnostate, this is easily disprooven by looking at the legislator of unambiguous ethnostates of history. Even Rhodesia had a way more diverse legislator than today’s Israel.


Immigrants do not have the vote, unless they become citizens. Correct?

So their political preferences aren't really material.

And of course, you have no data to back up your statements.


We're talking about a company's actions, why does vote matter?


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This is an antisocial and selfish way to think of your congeners. Giving credit only to the opinion of people related to you (in this case, citizenship) is like building walls in your mind. Politic and vote is a think, opinion and freethinking is a different one.


We’re not talking about the government here though


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When people think about morale, they usually don’t associate it with “scoring some points on SM”.

accept all or leave is not how people usually arbitrage they lives.


Immigrant here. When applying for green card, citizenship, etc. you are asked like a thousand times if you have ever participated in a genocide. The expectation is that if you say yes, they will deny the application.

There is a morality issue at play here for sure, but there is also an actual personal risk people are taking by knowingly contributing to tech which is used in an ongoing genocide.


Unique? You mean tweets? Yeah sure

It's 6B down the drain. Saying grok 1.5 is competitive is a joke, if it was any good it would be ranked well in chatbot arena (https://chat.lmsys.org/). Elon is a master in hyping underperforming things and this is no exception.


No, there is no ranking for Grok. It’s not participating.

It would be hard to judge rate of improvement at this point, since the company has only been around for 1.25 years, and grok 1.5 is yet to be released for general access.


>> It’s not participating.

I wonder why


Well, grok 1.5 hasn't been released yet, except to very few private testers.


You really think investors like sequoia and a16z are dumb enough to fall for Elon hyping things up? They know who he is and They’ve seen him operate at levels basically no other entrepreneur can snd are betting on that


> You really think investors like sequoia and a16z are dumb enough to fall for Elon hyping things up?

a16z invested $350 in Adam Neumann's real estate venture - after WeWork. VCs will absolutely knowingly invest on hype if they think it's going to last long enough for them to cash out with great returns.


SBF


Elon’s created multiple 100B companies


This is the second 20B company he created. Unfortunately the other one is Twitter.


But that doesn’t mean investors can’t be stupid


This is very interesting. A few questions:

- Why do you think similar approaches never landed on jax? My guess is this is not that useful for the current optimizations in fashion (transformers)

- How would you convince jax to incorporate this?


Well, the most common ML problems can be expressed as optimization over smooth functions (or reformulated that way manually). We might have to convince the ML world that branches do matter :) On the other hand, there are gradient-free approaches that solve problems with jumps in other ways, like many reinforcement learning algorithms, or metaheuristics such as genetic algorithms in simulation-based optimization. The jury's still out on "killer apps" where gradient descent can outperform these approaches reliably, but we're hoping to add to that body of knowledge...


>> We might have to convince the ML world that branches do matter :)

Easy: tell them about automata.


> Why do you think similar approaches never landed on jax?

Isn't this just adding noise to some branching conditions? What would take for a framework like Jax to "support" it, it seems like all you have to do is change

> if (x>0)

to

> if (x+n > 0)

where n is a sampled Gaussian.

Not sure this warrants any kind of changes in a framework if it's truly that trivial.


Semantically it seems truly that trivial, but in practice handling expectations in AD requires some additional machinery not found in implementations that were not written for nondeterminism.


How is it serious if money is the motor of freedom of speech? The suing culture in the US ensures freedom of speech up until you bother someone with money.


Change that to "bother someone with more money than you."

Essentially your point.

In the US, the wealthiest have most of the freedom. The rest of us, who can be sued/fired/blackballed, are, by degrees, merely serfs.


In the US, anyone can sue. You can learn how. It's not rocket science.


Yes, you can learn how to sue. You can learn how to be a doctor too. You can also learn rocket science. The third one is the easiest to me, personally.


If you can learn rocket science in x years, you can learn how to sue in x days. So, do both.


+1, this is just the commenter saying what they want without an actual court case


The justice system moves an order of magnitude slower than technology.

It’s the Wild West. The lack of a court case has no bearing on whether or not what they’re doing is right or wrong.


Sounds like the standard disrupt formula should apply. Cant we stuff the court into an app? I kinda dislike the idea of getting a different sentence for anything related to appearance or presentation.


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