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What is the point? Children need to learn how to think, not how to code.


Learning to code requires you to learn how to structure and subdivide a problem. Large parts of software engineering training is devoted to teaching people to think about problems in more formal ways.

More people should learn to code earlier exactly because it helps practising reasoning skills.


Most software engineers think about problems in bureaucratic (object-oriented) ways and not in formal ways, because they have been ruined by their "training".

Once they have a job, they discover that convoluted OO code bases offer great job security, so nothing will ever change.


No matter how much you might dislike those ways of coding, they are still vastly more formalized that how most people are used to dealing with problem solving.


You could reverse that and say that you can learn how to think by learning how to code.


For years, people have said that learning Latin teaches you to think better. Why would not the same be true of learning Python or Lisp?


Because to learn Latin you usually (at least in the country where I learnt it) have to read Virgil, Seneca, Tacitus and so on. They are not mandatory if you instead want to learn Python.


That was distinctly not the case when I learned Latin. Though it does explain the origin of that mindset.


It appears to be a PR stunt to promote putting programming on the core curriculum.

I guess they're either trying to attract foreign IT investment or creating a wedge to create space for more privatization in the Finnish schooling system (they're bringing in private sector expertise to teach programming).

It might be a reaction to the slow death of Nokia, too.


It's part of country wide upcoming curriculum change, not a PR stunt, read more from http://koodi2016.fi/ (site in Finnish, use google translate)

No privatization will happen in Finnish school systems.

There's always been professional people giving seminars, talks and teaching, but usually in university/college levels.


I think your cynicism is unwarranted. What I've understood, Reaktor's Code School for Children has been a very much grassroots effort and not a calculated PR stunt.


A code school sponsored by a private company is very much a calculated effort.

Reaktor is very much focused on profit through staff augmentation and project implementations. This code school is to establish branding.


I was referring to the Prime Minister's visit not the school.


How do you feel about wood shop and home ec and teaching art and music.


I'm wondering if they are obsolete, like quill pens and slide rules. Who has a wood shop? What jobs are available with those skills? and so on. Its an old middle-class ideal that every kid should learn those things, plus flower arranging and calculating a bearing on your yacht.


This is the kind of comment I would expect on hacker news.

Who has a woodshop? Carpenters, cabinet makers, furniture makers, CNC operators, instrument makers, boat makers, the list goes on.

The basic ability to decompose and fix real world objects is quite important, and our cushioned zones of computer bliss may make us forget that we need all of those people to keep not posting on hacker news and learning how to use physical tools.


Again, those are things that people with money can do. The vast mass of humanity doesn't have any access to a CNC mill, nor do they make boats in their basement (e.g.because they live in a small apartment). Its a first-world middle-class idea, was my point.


And its completely first world to assume that a boat maker is not a profession, but something a hobbyist would pursue.


I don't understand. Nobody's talking hobbies. Its absurd to imagine the average high school student will be a boatmaker or woodsmith. One in a million get to do things like that. Might as well be learning to make buggy whips or opera glasses.


When was the last time you were inside a hardware store?


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You might just want to take a chill pill and get off the internet a bit; I know it can be frustrating when you get a downvote for an honestly held opinion, but the best thing to do is take your licks instead of what you are doing here.


Perhaps don't put your system in the path of a proton beam? I've had a large test suite that consistently used 8GB running for three years without ECC RAM. Any bit flip would have been caught by the test suite. My conclusion is that bit flips are entirely exaggerated (probably by the hardware industry for obvious reasons).


Do you have the suite published? The frequency of errors depends on how much memory and in which conditions it is being used. Datacenters, supercomputers, even personal workstations used for scientific calculations benefit from error correction. Check this out: http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/02/new-study-proves-that-ecc-m...


Downvoted again by mindless mainstream. Have another go, perhaps you'll reach -10.


Wow, after 7 days someone has bothered to downvote this. Here, you have another chance.


Usually comments that complain about downvotes are downvoted. Have another go, perhaps you'll reach -20. If you persist, you will be eminently qualified as a Wikipedia admin.


It's an essay, not a comprehensive treatise that might fill 1000 pages.

I was glad to see some of the old pg back. His startup essays tended to be bit artificial, as if he had to force himself to write them.


> His startup essays tended to be bit artificial, as if he had to force himself to write them.

He was basically doing content marketing for YCombinator, which is understandable and probably served him/them well. But this is probably the sort of thing he's actually more interested in writing.


WWII had a cohesive effect on the American society and economy that lasted approximately until the 1980s. The results were more equality and less fragmentation during that period.

Since the 1980s technological progress and also social factors brought an ever increasing re-fragmentation, which, if not properly addressed, might lead to problems soon.

Acknowledging these problems is remarkable -- I think it's the first time pg did that.


I don't see how that follows. Consultants like Bruce Eckel have moved from C++ via Java to Python.


The current design is closer to the original design. Wait a couple of years, and the design you like will be back. Everything goes in circles for the reasons other people have mentioned above.


The process of creating cross links in one's mind that are actually still available when not staring at google.com works far better when in sitting in a library and reading actual books.

I think science (as opposed to hype like "big data") will progress faster again once the Internet goes out of fashion.


I'm pretty sure it isn't, but this question could be a trap.


I am 99% that's not the case. The author has a public profile my guess is that he is referring to this[1].

[1] https://quaxio.com/join_square/index.html


What a load of marketing speak... You forgot to mention "synergy".


I think Python is a good language, but not for learning.

Everything that relates to theory (scoping, object system, typing) is poorly specified and has loads of special cases that can only be understood by using the language a lot.


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