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We have been working on a FOSS desktop based alternative to GNU Cash with a modern UI for the past couple of years: Frappe Books

- https://frappebooks.com

- https://github.com/frappe/books

Do check it out!


Is this basically the accounts section of ERPNext? If not, what is the difference? I'm considering ERPNext for a small home business I'm starting up, but accounts are something I've never really delved into much beyond a few attempts at personal budget tracking in the past.


This looks pretty good! Hope you guys succeed.


Really neat! This looks like something that could be immensely helpful to me. I have very minor accounting needs but am on the verge of outgrowing the Spreadsheet method.

May I ask how you fund development? What is your feeling on the future?


Thanks! We fund the development via our other product - ERPNext.

We have one full time engineer working on it. If end up using it, please give us feedback and help spread the word.


Can it do multiple simultaneous users?


Hey, Frappe Books developer here. Not as of now, but it is something that we will be adding in. There has been a lot of requests for multi user support.


Yes there is increasing threat to freedom of speech, but India is not new to this. The left leaning Congress had even worse norms when they imposed martial law (Emergency).

India has a robust sphere of public debate and draconian laws and acts of discrimination by the government are regularly criticised. In more cases than not the government embarrasses itself by its clumsy use of power to restrict opposition, like in the case of the BBC documentary which did not uncover anything new.

Constant vigilance is required. I am not a BJP supporter, but I don't think the intent of the BJP is to suppress debate. They seek legitimacy. BJP is clearly toning down its more radical elements and is getting more mature judging by the way it allowed the Bharat Jodo Yatra (Join India Campaign) and understands that a robust opposition is in national interest.

I am more hopeful than this article.


What does "allowed the Bharat Jodo Yatra" mean? Free speech and assembly is constitutionally protected - there is nothing for the government to allow or disallow.


> judging by the way it allowed the Bharat Jodo Yatra

I mean, sure, yeah, we're not North Korea yet. And is that the bar we are setting for the "World's largest democracy?"


> it allowed the Bharat Jodo Yatra (Join India Campaign) and understands that a robust opposition is in national interest.

Last time I checked India was still a democracy.


. BJP is clearly toning down its more radical elements how exactly this is measured? do you have any stats to support your claim not the observation going whats printed on the media / social media.


It is useful to realize that either side is moved by the allure of power, and it's a fool's errand to justify the current situation with whataboutism - either instance was wrong.


I am not justifying the situation. I don't buy the overly negative prognosis.


> n't buy the overly negative prognosis.

No one need to buy negative opinions or so but trying to suppress truly occurring issues is childish. One needs to be mature to accept criticism. Whether twitter or elsewhere...

Again as a OCI, pointing out any issue is treated by this govt more as unpatriotic. (This strategy was successfully used by Bush/Trump to polarize the US). It is not good in the long term to do that.

Again many of the complaints are not out of spite. It is truly from heart many have optimism and feel let down. This is even inside the Indian consulate - I once was told that visit us only if you want to give a positive vibe (when I politely asked them as they printed place of birth with typo).

Note that US citizens complain about NSA spying, abortion rights etc.

Given poor law/order people can disappear in India. Take citizens that are languishing in prison. Again US police are not perfect but there are due procedures in the DOJ-USA. And getting a driving license or registering a house in US/EU will not need bribes.

Listening to complaints is the first step.

One can politely disagree. By banning things they create a chilling effect.

and please do not all the time compare to Congress govt. This is similar to blaming British. Yes, all that happened - just move on - NOW do good to current citizens.

No point in having dirty beaches complaining about Congress or British.


The Emergency was 50 years ago. Things change over time.


I am surprised no one has mentioned schema.org. It is a much simpler standard and more widely used than RDF/OWL.

Another point I think is that it is not in any publishers interest to publish structured data, as it easily copy-able. For example, neither Amazon nor Wikipedia publishes using schema.org. It would make their data susceptible to 3rd party aggregators.


If you are looking for a modern free desktop accounting platform check out FrappeBooks - https://github.com/frappe/books. Version 1.0 is round the corner.


This looks very neat, thanks for the link.

Seems more targeted towards small businesses/freelancers... wonder if that would make it less ideal for use in a personal finance context.

FWIW I'm happily using a service called 22seven[1] that is backed by a big bank in my country (South Africa). It is super convenient and links to a bunch of different services so you can pull in all your investments etc. to track all at once (of course this means they track you too, but they were doing that before anyhow)... I just don't know for how many years it will stay updated, free, and available for use to people who bank at other banks (such as myself), so I'd like to at least plan for moving to a more open alternative when the time comes.

[1] https://www.22seven.com/


Looks nice. Does this tool support multiple currencies?


Not yet, you can add your comments here! https://github.com/frappe/books/issues/183


This brought back a lot of nostalgia. (I was Indian grad student in a state university in the North East in ‘01)

For me the killer is the “master of the universe” feeling you get in the United States coming from India. Everything is in order and under control from the lawns in suburban homes, to supermarkets and libraries to traffic and restaurants. You see a lot more straight lines and perfect Bézier curves. This is a completely different texture in extreme contrast to India where “chaos” reigns and the spices and smells are a lot sharper.

After coming back to India. I somehow feel more “free” and “alive” in the chaos. Giving up control feels like a more natural, intuitive way of living and dying.


When I go back home to India, the very first cab from the Mumbai airport to home is like a dangerous roller coaster ride. No lanes, criss crossing autos(tuktuks), bouncing on small potholes on the road, smoke, honks, buses and cars in close proximity etc is a sensory overload.

I breathe a sigh of relief when I come back to the US, but I do miss home.


> When I go back home to India, the very first cab from the Mumbai airport to home is like a dangerous roller coaster ride.

Somewhat oddly, I had exactly the opposite experience the one time I visited Mumbai — but I was coming from a few weeks in Ahmedabad, where traffic lights were basically a (typical ignored) suggestion.


I grew up in the US but when I visited India (Bengaluru) the first thing that struck me was the chaotic nature of the streets. Everyone seemed to be following their own personal set of traffic laws and it just worked out.

The nice side-effect of the chaos is that you have to pay attention. I find it too easy, in the more constrained US culture, to zone out and assume I'm not involved. It leads to a sense of isolation.

In India, I had to be present and mindful of everything around me at all times. It made daily life feel more vibrant, interesting and paradoxically more relaxing.


The big question is, if customers are going to stay over a long run. Also the assumption is that SAAS companies are to keep growing, while I see them all converging on the same market / same dollar spend (CRM, Support, Workflow). There will be consolidation at some point, and it won't be pretty.


> The big question is, if customers are going to stay over a long run.

Plenty of public companies have had several years in a row of >100% net retention. When Dropbox filed its S-1 it had a graph showing that every quarterly cohort of customers who had signed up had continued to grow massively in value over time, and i imagine the majority of successful SaaS co's could show a similar chart.


Why is this on hackernews again? I thought it was a blog on Kubernetes or React!


You’re mistaken about something - the only thing hacker news denizens have in common is that they could potentially feature in posts on /r/iamverysmart.

You probably thought it was tech or something about startups…think again.


Is a classical 'testing your interests' hook. Probably for filling reports. Similar to

'What brand of sunglasses do you wear?'.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28029206

or the, always popular bunch of themes falling in the pattern: 'do you take drugs?/ what drugs have you experienced?'

or 'what diseases do you had?' also very popular theme.

In resume, Don't talk with the police but, would you mind to answer this bunch of questions about your personality on internet instead, please?.


Posted by someone with high karma. Yes, I know...


If you have showdead turned on, there's a fella spamming almost every thread saying it's a covid site


Yeah, what the actual fuck. This really makes me question the audience on this site...

Does anyone have any alternatives to hacker news? Preferably ones with more skeptics than there are occultist and "demonologist" morons?

Fucking bizarre.


“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”


I forget, is your quote attributable to Michael Scott or Wayne Gretsky?

You assume I've neither read the article or researched demonology. I have.

All of the neopagan bullshit and demonic sigils can be traced back to obvious frauds starting in the 19th century, when occultist grifting was in vogue.

This is a simplistic article on an already childish subject.


As technologists, we play in complicated contructed worlds, with rules and rituals, and obscure variations and debatably non-stochastic processes, created by other people all day long (and sometimes all night).

You don't have to believe in demons (or third normal form, or agile) for the body of knowledge to be interesting.

Some people take it pretty seriously, and some people do it for fun. Like LARPing.


Why all the anger? I may read on different philosophies and religions that I do not fully or partially agree with, practice or believe in, yet I may find useful life lessons in each, or drive pleasure just from the act of reading. I do not regard any of them as "bullshit" just because I do not understand or share their opinions.


You seem pretty caught up in your own emotions on this topic and are missing my point entirely. These stories and ideas still came from human minds, and that's the part that interests me even if I think the claims are fraudulent.


One could argue that the mere existence of a concept or an idea in someone's mind makes it real, especially so if that concept or idea has real, observable side effects for others in the "real" world. Heck, isn't this why we read science fiction or play board games? They create a mental image, the image is real in our minds.


Neat but it's still a simplistic article and pretty much everything "comes from human minds."

My emotions are disdain and disbelief that people still gobble up this horseshit. Nothing wrong with that. Do you believe yourself to not have any emotions and are an arbiter of truth and perfect logic?

Please.


Wrong. Is a blog about Apple M1


Just flag it


This needs to be understood in the context of a cultural onslaught of American values. More than just social media, services like Netflix, Prime, Disney are streaming live into millions of households in India.

India has its own authentic identity that is under severe threat. If you look at China / East Asia - it is culturally and aesthetically like the West, mostly America, other than language and deference to authority.

India has been traditionally liberal through the ages, it has more diverse cultures embedded in society and has fought much fewer internal wars than any ancient civilization. Few other cultures have outright pacifist icons such as Buddha or Gandhi. It has been able to absorb external influences gradually while maintaining its own distinct identity.

The backlash we see is not as harsh as China or the Islamic world, but India will need its own gradual pace to accept changes. It is more than this core liberalism that connects India to the West. While India and America are not geopolitically aligned, Indians in America have formed deep cultural roots that connect the two cultures. Technology leaders like Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadella are role models for every child in India, so is American VP Kamala Harris.

The article in my view is not wrong, but takes a very narrow view of things. Other than the few 100 posts that Indian authorities have removed, there are 100s of thousands of critical posts that are still widely circulated. The government inadvertently makes "own goals" and add fuel to fire when it does stupid things like this. The farmer's protest blew up in their face and this is not the end.

There is a lot more to be hopeful about India rather than expect it to follow narrow nationalism of China or fierce capitalism of America.


This was not the case pre 2014. You are speaking as if India is a country that was recently created.


Blockchains are slowly becoming a pseudoscience. People spout a bunch of jargon and crypto math but have no idea how anything is connected to the real world.

Most of the fraud that exists out there is due to social hacking. There is no real problem a blockchain solves.

The surprising thing is how many people are falling for it.


I'm broadly anti-blockchain and anti-cryptocurrency since I grew disillusioned by the scene early on, but even I think blockchain has solved some problems, I just don't think those problems are worth the cost or that those problems are of people that should have them, like criminals.

For example, blockchain is allowing many Russians to move capital out of the country while the state locks down foreign currency transactions. That's a real problem that's getting solved, and I'm sure in some cases it's good people trying their best to survive. On the other hand, it also allows individuals or organizations to avoid sanctions or paying taxes. The cost isn't worth it. I'd rather not have the crime, schemes, and pollution that so often come with crypto. Plus all the countless stories of good people losing all their money because they forgot their password to their cryptowallet.


> blockchain is allowing many Russians to move capital out of the country while the state locks down foreign currency transactions.

Like it or not, this means it's breaking the law. So this is just another way of saying that it allows you to break the laws you don't agree with. (also the ones you do agree with, of course)

> That's a real problem that's getting solved

On the flip side it's a real law that's being broken.

So your "on the one hand, on the other hand" is "it allows people to commit good crimes, but also commit bad crimes".

The law isn't perfect. Absolutely not. But the solution to bad law isn't "no law". That's not the path to a good future.

There are people out there who think all taxation is theft, and that tax evasion is as moral as smuggling money out of Russia. Of course others say exactly the same, but mean that they are both immoral.


I guess what I'm trying to say in defence here is that I 99.5% agree with your response to my comment. Yes: Lawlessness is abhorrent.

That said, there were plenty of inventions used by spies against The Third Reich. Those inventions, in of themselves, could be used to destabilize any possible state; but the fact that they were being used by real heroes in the fight against injustice does, at least in part, redeem them. We both may not like the practical consequences of most of what blockchain has to offer, but I think it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend as if there were no benefit. There is some partial benefit to blockchain, even if it is mostly a scam.


Breaking a law is not by definition immoral.

That doesn't conflict with saying "A system that prevents laws is absolutely horrible and immoral".


What about a piece of software designed to circumvent laws against accessing websites critical of some authoritarian regime? Should citizens of that country suck it up, because the solution to a bad law isn’t “no law”? Is using such software immoral?


Well, that depends. Is that software breaking local law? Then creating it is obviously immoral. Is that software breaking foreign law? That depends on whether your government currently sees that foreign country as an ally, or an enemy. If its an ally, it's obviously immoral. If it's an enemy, it's obviously moral.

This morality will, of course, flip along with the geopolitical situation.

... Unless, of course, your ethics are utilitarian in nature - in which case, you will need to do a full accounting of all plausibly foreseeable consequences of creating this software - the same kind of accounting that was done by people who were philosophically motivated to leak nuclear secrets to the USSR.


Well, if the parent commenter is of the latter persuasion, legal status of the specific issue should be irrelevant, only its utility points. Otherwise he’s arguing that all legal systems and their sets of laws ought to be respected, including mutually contradictory ones.


> Well, that depends. Is that software breaking local law? Then creating it is obviously immoral.

Breaking a law is not obviously immoral. Many people have broken traffic laws to save a life by getting them to the hospital, to give an obvious example.

(well, less obvious in case they actually hit someone. The morality shouldn't depend on the outcome. Anyway, this is getting a bit too deep)

I think both your options, which seem like they're referring to realpolitik and utilitarianism, are way too simplified to even be useful for practical application on this topic. And they are most certainly not an exhaustive list of the options.

So no, it's neither A nor B.

And as for utilitarianism, the problem with blockchain is exactly it's LARPing strength: "It's math". It's pretending that you have the right, today, to decide morality, and indeed utility, for all of time.

And you can't. Adding anonyminity to the mix means that you are even hiding evidence of something going wrong with your predictions.

Looking forward to seeing President Eric Trump ordering the treasury to transfer everything into some Monero account? That may impeach him, but the money is gone forever.

If it's the same guy looting Fort Knox, then we can send people to get the things back.


I already said the law isn't perfect. And to be explicit: It's not immoral to break bad law. But you should be honest about it. It's not "fixing the problem in a clever way", just like how if you think taxation is theft, to you it's moral to not pay taxes.

You seemed to have understood my "Bad law X" vs "No law X". No, I mean "Bad law X" vs "No laws what-so-ever", which is the actual tradeoff being done here.


They solve the problem of centralized trust.


That’s like solving the problem of snortleblast.


You can not like crypto and still acknowledge the very real technology powering crypto.

Whether it's Byzantine fault tolerance, or cryptoeconomics, there are some good solutions there. People's issues tend to be whether the solutions are applicable to the world, and/or useful.


It is great, super interesting, very clever technology. Which is exactly why it is nerd-sniping: the CS of it is so interesting, it must be innovative and useful! Alas, nope not really. I was so excited about Bitcoin back when the whitepaper first came out - a totally new idea! based on ideas from cryptography! amazing! this will replace all digital payments and reshape the world! Alas, nope. Then Ethereum came along - smart contracts! so cool! just imagine the new legal infrastructure this will unlock! Alas, nope again.

I still hold out a hope (perhaps a fantasy) that all the talent and money funneling into all this, combined with the fundamentally interest and novel technology behind it, will come up with something truly innovative. It just seems like it must, right? But every new thing (most recently this NFT stuff) that comes out just further and further confirms my long-held tentative conclusion that there really isn't much there, there.


Have you seen:

- https://uniswap.org/

- https://aave.com/

- https://makerdao.com/

- https://yearn.finance/

Pretty innovative and useful stuff...


It looks to me like uniswap epitomizes the real world ownership problem discussed in the article we're discussing. "An experiment in tokenized socks" is (unironically?) highlighted on their home page.

Aave seems like something that is useful within the bubble of cryptocurrency traders, but not outside it. It strikes me as a meta thing, not a thing. It doesn't work if cryptocurrencies are never useful for anything outside that bubble.

Does Dai have a strategy for being actually useful as a currency to purchase things? Bitcoin has been trying to be useful as that for a decade with very little success.

Yearn seems to be in the same boat as Aave, it only exists in this bubble of cryptocurrency speculation.

None of this stuff or anything adjacent to it exists for anyone I interact with in my life outside of this website. What will blockchain technology be known for amongst people who are neither computer science nerds nor financial speculators? If it's just a new kind of speculative asset, like a new kind of derivative, then fine, that's innovative in a way, but it is extremely niche.


He said "real problem" so..yeah


Both can be true:

1) The original BTC paper was a huge breakthrough in decentralized systems.

2) Most "blockchain" projects today are merely elaborate Ponzis.


Byzantine fault tolerance is definitely a real problem.


For whom? Folks at Google, Facebook, and Amazon that are building distributed databases aren't re-writing their backends to use blockchains, for obvious reasons.

As for people who aren't building general-purpose distributed databases, a solution to the Byzantine generals problem is more of a solution to a problem that they don't have - as other posts in this thread demonstrate.


Yeah, but property is also enforcement. That's trust. Centralized trust.


They don't. Neyond some very small applications anything with "crypto" in it ends u reinventing all the institutions of trust that people have had for thousands of years.


> The surprising thing is how many people are falling for it.

I don't think they are falling for it, I think they are mostly trying to talk up their speculative investments. (Be they direct I-own-coins financial investments, or indirect I-make-money-by-consulting or I-am-building-a-startup carreer 'investments'.)


There are auditors who are supposed to scrutinise this stuff. Audit trails with counter party ledgers, receipts, reconciliation with bank statements can easily bring out any such fraud.

To claim the miscarriage of justice happened due to “bugs” is wrong. It’s due to bad auditors. I think this is poor journalism.


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