tomc1985 made an extremely valid point here, as any serious DAW user would agree - they did not imply the creator was an idiot, but that any DAW without plug-in support is, at best - a toy, and I will personally add that the concept of using a browser to record audio when latency and playback quality is already an issue with fully OS-native DAW’s.
Other than some side project just for fun, I absolutely see no practical use, application, or function the app can provide that Ardour (which is already open-source and free if you compile it) isn’t going to do infinitely better.
The author isn’t an idiot, quite the opposite, it takes a lot of effort to write even a simple DAW.
But the product makes no sense. The target platform is totally in opposition to the needs the tool requires to fulfill its purpose.
It’s like those people who run DOOM on their smart fridge. The creator isn’t an idiot, it’s just a waste of time outside of saying ‘I did this’ and nobody is ever actually going to choose to seriously play the game with that way.
There’s no need to be snarky like you’re being, it’s possible to make points without coming off like an asshole.
Thanks, you basically wrote what I was going to. In audio-production-land, the term DAW is generally understood to mean "real-time (single-digit ms latency) capable audio plugin host and audio/MIDI sequencer". Anything not checking all those boxes is interesting, but likely won't be "able to(n)" get a whole lot of "tracktion" from "avid" users. ;-D
I also need to note that users of free/cheap audio software can be some of the brattiest, most entitled and actively hostile users I've seen anywhere, based in my 20+ years on KVR, GearSpace, and other forums. Every dev in the space needs to have a thick skin and be ready for the "it would be great if only it..." to start rolling in.
Great to see people pushing the "envelope" of browser-based tech!
Yea I’m mocking you because if you couldn’t tell how annoying your obvious “constructive” criticism was going to sound, you’ve got some significant barriers to overcome
Not sure why you are being so hostile with this user, especially given his question/concern is valid (source: media production for over a decade).
Plug-ins are often the secret sauce for our workflows and styles, and prosumers/hobbyists dip into them as well. If your browser based DAW doesn't have, say, Izotope RX support, then that's a non-starter for a ton of people (especially podcasters). I'm not going to round trip between software on my computer and a browser based software, that's for sure. I don't have time for that nonsense.
Regardless of your opinion or how you feel about the above, your tone is needlessly hostile and unproductive.
The difference is that you're coming across as needlessly aggressive and insulting... which is fine for Reddit but not so appropriate on hacker news.
Both they and I would both love to know if the developer behind this DAW has given any thought to how they might integrate with existing plug-ins such as VSTs, not an easy feat.
It's also such an obvious question though, isn't it? You think that the developer pouring so much of their free time into a browser-based DAW wouldn't have considered the idea of supporting plug-ins at all?
People far too often approach projects like this with "this app is only useful for me if it does x..." and I think that framing is poor when someone is just exercising their passion on a project. I'd personally respond with "great, go build your own that supports your plug-ins. Have fun."
> It's also such an obvious question though, isn't it?
Is it? I’m genuinely asking as someone who works in audio production. Plenty of people create tools for us in the podcast space, AI transcriptions for spoken word (premiere has a good one), new ways to automate typically manual processes for mastering, you name it. The thing is it is not a given that the person creating a solution has an audio production background and properly weighs the needs.
Plenty of engineers do work for or work directly for hospitals. Are you going to tell me that they might not overlook something a nurse or doctor might need? Because I assure you it happens in every industry when people come up with new tools and solutions, often because many actually don’t come from a strong background in the industry they’re making tools for. I value an outside perspective, don’t get me wrong. But it has its issues too.
It’s not uncommon and it’s fair for us technicians, the people these solutions are designed for, to ask questions.
Yea its obviously valid.. you think the dude just bossed up and made a daw for this crazy hostile build target without knowing how people use them?
I took it personally because all these hacker news retards want to nitpick a hobby project when a post like this (really cool, non-axios.com-tech-guy-libertarian-shit) shows up to feel like they have a big dick despite not being able to build something half as cool themselves
Well, native vs Web, we already has this conversation about Word vs Google Docs ans now even Word is a web app built with web technologies, and can run in a browser.
I'm part of the W3C WebAudio Working group, the core team that is making the WebAudio API at the heart of web apps that can do real time audio processing. Since 2011 we saw more and more impressive applications, and with ASM.js in 2015 and its successor, WASM in 2018, people started to port VST plugins, to compile very efficient DSP code written using some DSP like FAUST to WASM, etc. A Plugin format exists since 2015 (Web Audio Modules aka WAM), and some DAW that can record real time audio, support audio effects, instruments, etc. are now available. While they are not as feature complete as native DAWS, thousands of users record multitrack songs everyday and use many built in or external plugins. AmpedStudio can even use your native VSTs. I wrote some WAM plugins (guitar amp simulators) that are usable in AmpedStudio. It is possible to create very efficient WAM plugins in a minute using the FAUST IDE + some existing FAUST code (there are hundreds of examples on the IDE + on diverse open source GitHub Repos). You will find most effects, some instruments such as MOOG recreations etc.
Of course, the Web based DAWs and plugins are young, but some big actors like Roland (see https://roland50.studio/), Ableton (see https://learningsynths.ableton.com/), Propellerheads (they ported to the Web their VST synth Europa), Antares (the real autotune VST is available in the online DAW soundtrap.com).
Real time recording is operational without any hassle on Mac OS, and with some driver configs on Windows or Linux. You need to calibrate "latency compensation", that will automatically adjust the live recording audio to existing tracks.
Yes, online DAWs are close to GarageBand for example, in terms of features. But they also have some advantages : automatic sharing of projects, some DAWS even allow synchronous collaboration à la Google Docs, sharing a project is just sharing a link, and working together on the same project becomes really easy, no hassle for storing the audio files. Publication to spotify/deezer/youtube/apple Music is a click on a button. Most DAWS can be used for free. Etc. It's just the target user profile that is different: while Pro Tools/Logic/Ableton will target studios and pro users, these online DAWS are more for less exigent, more online connected people. Most projects are electronic music, etc.
I use Logic Audio, and I also use online DAWs. I heavily used ampedstudio during the covid lock down with remote friends... Then we roughly recorded / mixed some song projects, then I polished the final version by re-importing the tracks in LOGIC, but this was really for fine tuning things... AmpedStudio and soundtrap (I did not try bandlab) are very capable online DAWS.
Lots of really cogent points. Hopefully he reads this comment and swiftly begins working on designing a Diplomatic Agent to avoid the MAD or getting a good peace treaty
It is quite fast tbh and non-sluggish terminal is nice-to-have.
I've tried one terminal rendering benchmark I had at hand [1] and on my MacBook Pro it was 17x faster than iterm and 3x faster than wezterm which is my daily driver.
One of the first tests for infringement is "substantial similarity"(see [1] for example). If you claim copyright infringement on the basis of any small number of characters your case will be tossed by the judge. There isn't a specific number of characters that need to be copied before it becomes "substantial" because the court gets to rule on that based on the context etc.
The realm of what does and doesn't constitute a license violation is complex and, in the end, up to the whims of the legal system. For this particular issue it appears that an actionable amount of the project is in use.
