I would be completely down with kids only allowed to own flip phones without apps or internet. Phone calls and texts, bring back the infamous T9, kids under 16 are not allowed to be sold a non-flip phone.
Of course this doesn’t address tablets, netbooks etc.
So the actual answer is good parenting, which I posit is one of the bigger problems in the US today and has been for a long time.
Or we keep pretending that pushing education and passing laws about cell phones will somehow be a substitute for bad parenting. The US has been doing that for a long time as well, isn’t working.
I think it’s common knowledge China never reports numbers that cast them in an unfavorable light, to the point where analysts generally disregard them.
I suppose you realize the people running those manufacturing companies won't be hurt much at all, everyone who scrapes by trying to making a living work for them will hurt a lot when they get fired.
The vast majority of US auto jobs have already been lost to automation yet I don't hear you asking for those to come back in exchange for twice as expensive cars.
This is these companies own fault. These companies have grown cozy rent seeking with little competition and have completely missed the electrification of cars as a result. Cheaper cars will hurt those workers, but all of society will be better off when one of their largest expenses decreases.
Nothing gets cheaper. The bullwhip effect everyone kept evangelizing never happened. Between the housing crisis and the covid stimulus I’m not sure why anyone ever expected things to get cheaper, or expects it today.
The UAW endorsed the guy currently threatening to invade and annex Canada. Why would I care about them? They can all rot. No Chinese autoworker ever threatened me with invasion.
Shitty napkin math says china is saving about $1-$1.5B, so I agree, I'm not seeing the needle more here. What _does_ make sense is that this agreement will continue to evolve over time. What _doesn't_ make sense is the 10-40% battery capacity loss because of temperature, for EVs in canada. I think newer EVs manage temperature issues like this better than older models, but I am unfamiliar with chinese EVs so I can't speak to them.
How many chinese EVs are in canada right now? If the answer is close enough to zero as to be insignificant, how is this saving canadians any money on chinese EVs?
If it helps, we can say something like: this adds $1-$2B gross revenue to china selling EVs to canada. Profit, probably less than a $1B. Needle still not moving.
Yeah, the phrase "significant quantities of" is really throwing the whole comment for an unfortunate loop. Maybe "I choose not to steal any vehicles" or "I choose not to commit fraud" and work up from _there_ instead of somehow trying to faux-normalize cannibalism. Very strange indeed.
Well, I added that after realizing that it wasn’t uncommon to accidentally eat small parts of your mouth, fingertips, things like that in the course of a year, and I was not about to fail in my quest to reject cannibalism for the year. I mean, for me, that would have been a new low.
Maybe consider patent law? I have a friend who worked for the patent office, and the patent office paid for their law school. Now they’re a patent attorney and doing quite well.
> I push them to their limits and have definitely witnessed novel output.
I’m quite curious what these novel outputs are. I imagine the entire world would like to know of an LLM producing completely, never-before-created outputs which no human has ever thought before.
Here is where I get completely hung up. Take 2+2. An LLM has never had 2 groups of two items and reached the enlightenment of 2+2=4
It only knows that because it was told that. If enough people start putting 2+2=3 on the internet who knows what the LLM will spit out. There was that example a ways back where an LLM would happily suggest all humans should eat 1 rock a day. Amusingly, even _that_ wasn’t a novel idea for the LLM, it simply regurgitated what it scraped from a website about humans eating rocks. Which leads to the crux: how much patently false information have LLMs scraped that is completely incorrect?
This is not a correct approximation of what happens inside an LLM. They form probabilistic logical circuits which approximate the world they have learned through training. They are not simply recalling stored facts. They are exploiting organically-produced circuitry, walking a manifold, which leads to the ability to predict the next state in a staggering variety of contexts.
It's not hard to imagine that a sufficiently developed manifold could theoretically allow LLMs to interpolate or even extrapolate information that was missing from the training data, but is logically or experimentally valid.
So you do agree that an LLM cannot derive math from first principals, or no? If an LLM had only ever seen 1+1=2 and that was the only math they were ever exposed to, along with the numbers 0-10, could an LLM figure out that 2+2=4?
I argue absolutely not. That would be a fascinating experiment.
Hell, train it on every 2-number addition combination of m+n where m and n can be any number between 1-100 (or 0-100 would be better) BUT 2, and have it figure out what 2+2 is.
I would probably change my opinion about “circuits”, which by the way really stretches the idea of a circuit. The “circuit” is just the statistically most likely series of tokens that you’re drawing pretend lines between. Sure, technically connect-the-dots is a circuit, but not in the way you’re implying, or that paper.
> If an LLM had only ever seen 1+1=2 and that was the only math they were ever exposed to, along with the numbers 0-10, could an LLM figure out that 2+2=4?
What? Of course not? Could you? Do you understand just how much work has gone into proving that 1 + 1 = 2? Centuries upon centuries of work, reformulating all of mathematics several times in the process.
> Hell, train it on every 2-number addition combination of m+n where m and n can be any number between 1-100 (or 0-100 would be better) BUT 2, and have it figure out what 2+2 is.
If you read the paper I linked, it shows how a constrained modular addition is grokked by the model. Give it a read.
> The “circuit” is just the statistically most likely series of tokens that you’re drawing pretend lines between.
That is not what ML researchers mean when they say circuit, no. Circuits are features within the weights. It's understandable that you'd be confused if you do not have the right prior knowledge. Your inquiries are good, but they should stop as inquiries.
If you wish to push them to claims, you first need to understand the space better, understand what modern research does and doesn't show, and turn your hypotheses into testable experiments, collect and publish the results. Or wait for someone else to do it. But the scientific community doesn't accept unfounded conjecture, especially from someone who is not caught up with the literature.
That's wonderful, but you are ignoring that your kid comes built in with a massive range of biological priors, built by millions of years of evolution, which make counting natural and easy out of the box. Machine learning models have to learn all of these things from scratch.
And does your child's understanding of mathematics scale? I'm sure your 4-year-old would fail at harder arithmetic. Can they also tell me why 1+1=2? Like actually why we believe that? LLMs can do that. Modern LLMs are actually insanely good at not just basic algebra, but abstract, symbolic mathematics.
You're comparing apples and oranges, and seem to lack foundational knowledge in mathematics and computer science. It's no wonder this makes no sense to you. I was more patient about it before, but now this conversation is just getting tiresome. I'd rather spend my energy elsewhere. Take care, have a good day.
I hope you restore your energy, I had no idea this was so exhausting! Truly, I'll stop afflicting my projected lack of knowledge, sorry I tired you out!
Ah man, I was curious to read your response about priors.
> If an LLM had only ever seen 1+1=2 and that was the only math they were ever exposed to, along with the numbers 0-10, could an LLM figure out that 2+2=4?
Unless you locked your kid in a room since birth with just this information, it is not the same kind of set up is it?
No, you were being arrogant and presumptuous, providing flawed analogies and using them as evidence for unfounded and ill-formed claims about the capabilities of frontier models.
Lack of knowledge is one thing, arrogance is another.
You could find a pre-print on Arxiv to validate practically any belief. Why should we care about this particular piece of research? Is this established science, or are you cherry-picking low-quality papers?
I don't need to reach far to find preliminary evidence of circuits forming in machine learning models. Here's some research from OpenAI researchers exploring circuits in vision models: https://distill.pub/2020/circuits/ Are these enough to meet your arbitrary quality bar?
Circuits are the basis for features. There is still a ton of open research on this subject. I don't care what you care about, the research is still being done and it's not a new concept.
Hmm, they're not 'messing with' journalism or national security. They just don't care enough to index denmark journalism. I'm also not sure how denmark can strongarm google et. al. into doing anything at all. Is this incorrect, is there some sort of path forward here for denmark to get what they want?
But Google is willing to host their content in search, right?
They're just not willing to pay since there's no revenue benefit to search hosting it. It seems like Danish media doesn't like this and has chosen to withhold their content, which is their right of course, but it seems strange to contort that into a claim that Google is doing censorship.
> In practice, that's a form of censorship since it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through search.
No it doesn't. It it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through GOOGLE search. A subtle but hugely distinct difference, making your point quite moot.
BS. If the lead provider in the market systematically excludes you from search results it's absolutely going to make it harder for people to discover your content. Kindly note I said 'a form of censorship', miss me with the binary reductionism.
That attitude "we're gonna make a ton of money and leave you with fascism" is why US tech is not going to last in the EU in the long run. It's unsustainable, like a parasite that kills its host. Basically they're out the moment the EU doesn't need US weapons. Thank Trump for starting this push for independence.
Of course this doesn’t address tablets, netbooks etc.
So the actual answer is good parenting, which I posit is one of the bigger problems in the US today and has been for a long time.
Or we keep pretending that pushing education and passing laws about cell phones will somehow be a substitute for bad parenting. The US has been doing that for a long time as well, isn’t working.
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