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I am the COO of Salesforce. Two of the top ten jobs on Indeed are Salesforce Admin and Salesforce Developer, and the jobs are distributed around the world. We have a ton of stories of folks transitioning into the ecosystem and developing an extremely successful career.

Notably, our certifications are freely available at https://www.trailhead.com/. You can get started, learn, and get credentials for free. It is a great place to start, and we purposely made our learning and credentialing free so we could make it as easy as possible for folks pivoting mid-career into Salesforce.

I would be happy to point you in the right direction. My email is bret.taylor@salesforce.com.


Seriously impressed by your responsiveness here.


Shameless plug, lots of good people (admins, devs, MVPs, SFDC internal) that can help you along your journey in the SFXD discord as well [0].

https://join.sfxd.org


Off topic, but really excited to intern with you this summer :)


Excited to work with you!


I love HN.


What does Salesforce really do? I could never warp my head around it. Could you ELI5?


(I am not affiliated with SFDC)

The SalesForce product is essentially a large-scale set of software tools that can be used to manage data and communications (marketing, analytics, contracts, timelines, schedules, records, helpdesk tickets, payments, etc.) between vendors and clients. It's a CRM (Customer Relationship Management) system.

The reason it's not clear what their product is to non-users is that there isn't really a "default SalesForce experience"; the point of buying their software is that they (or you) are supposed to be able to customize it to the point where you can use it in exactly the way your business requires. Whether or not that is actually true is the subject of many lengthy debates on HN.


From what I gather, they're a:

Expensive and hugely expansible webapp built on top of Oracle that allows admins to make and track customers through the sales pipeline using various methods.

The software's intent is for marketing, sales, and execs to see how various campaigns are running and how to control them.

They're usually outside of standard devops pipeline by a good distance.

The downside: Salesforce seems to be at the whim of Oracle, who has their own competing product in the CRM category.

And I'm also studying it, and working towards the certs myself. May not be looooong term, but people with this knowledge do tend to get paid well. (Anything connected with marketing/sales does)


Haven't they moved off of Oracle? I recall seeing they had job openings for Postgres admins with the intention of moving off of Oracle.


its in progress. there surely are a lot of dependencies to work through. That said - I don't think Oracle would be legally allowed to or capable of damaging Salesforce by witholding licenses or whatever. And the fact that they are on Oracle currently has no effect on the developer, admin, or user facing APIs. like any cloud provider all of that is abstracted away.


At its core, Salesforce is a SaaS database platform that lets a non-programmer admin create data models for a business, as well as custom views and queries.

But Salesforce goes beyond being a database to the point of being more like a web and mobile framework specifically dedicated to building apps for business. Salesforce has its own flavor of Java (Apex) and its own MVC paradigm (Lightning). You can develop entire custom apps on Salesforce, similar to how Shopify has its own app ecosystem.


They do spend a lot of time telling admins that you don't need to do any of that scary coding thing...until you do.


I thought Salesforce certifications had registration fees. Has that changed?


There's two kinds. The certs do need paying for and test centres. Trailheads are free and give you badges. These are great as an intro, but I think many employers want the real certs.


Screenshotted your response instantly. Thanks.


One of the best quotes in the Google quotes file an early Googler maintained (I am sure I am screwing it up):

“I’ve heard of defensive programming, but never adversarial memory.” — Ben Gomes


Close!

> I've never thought of defensive programming in terms of adversarial memory.


As someone who writes a lot of toy languages, I made this scaffolding for a LLVM-based compiler: https://github.com/finiteloop/compiler

It uses Bison and Flex for parsing and lexing unlike this post, but may be a useful starting point for those building their own toy languages.


Reusable compiler components are really helpful. I made this example for parsing with ANTLR:

https://github.com/empirical-soft/calculANTLR

It uses a C++ port of CPython's ASDL to define the AST.


Doesn’t the LLVM API go through breaking changes fairly often? How do you track all that and keep your sanity?


Everyone says that but I have not experienced it. In practice, I think this impacts backend extension developers more than people targeting LLVM IR. My experience covers version 7-11, but perhaps it used to be worse?


I've been updating a small codegen since the 3.x days. There have been many API changes with major versions. That said, I always found it pretty easy to implement the changes (something like a workday for my ~10k LLVM-interfacing LoC), and the changes tend to be such that once you get it to compile again, it just works as before.

I think LLVM is an excellent demonstration of how to design and implement big systems well in C++, and as a part of that, they also do breaking changes pretty well.


> Doesn’t the LLVM API go through breaking changes fairly often? How do you track all that and keep your sanity?

No, not very big ones. But they give no stability promises.

If you're using a language other than C++ via API bindings, you will experience some churn going from version to version as the bindings need to be updated too.


At FriendFeed, when we first introduced real-time comments and likes (pretty sure we were the first social network to do this), we did it with long-polling via an iFrame because web sockets did not exist. It actually worked pretty well!

https://www.ft.com/content/87b8107e-9c6d-3d3f-a60d-3e4f6315d...


People file lawsuits when companies have filed for IPO because generally that leads to companies being in a "quiet period" in which they cannot effectively respond publicly, which increases the likelihood of settlement, etc. It is also extremely common for competitors to seed the press with negative story lines, taking advantage of the legally mandated quiet period to remove the filing company's ability to counter these stories.


My employer just went through IPO. I was really disappointed how within days of the public confirmation of the S-1, competitors were lying very openly and publicly about things they knew we couldn't refute well because of the quiet period.


Developer documentation is here: https://quip.com/dev/

The APIs to build Live Apps enable real-time coediting and online / offline syncing with no special code; you get a ton for "free," and we are super proud of the technology.

We open sourced all the apps we wrote, like Calendar, Kanban board, and more. Available at https://github.com/quip/quip-apps


Minifying alone is "kind of" important, and the benefits are hard to measure precisely with the combination of gzip, http/2, and the plethora of other network optimizations. However, the more sophisticated JavaScript compilers, like Google's Closure Compiler (https://developers.google.com/closure/compiler/) also do a lot of other compiler optimizations, like inlining functions, eliminating dead code, etc.

When you are working on a large engineering team with lots of JavaScript volume written by a lot of different people, the dead code elimination alone is worth it; it means you can use one function from a library with millions of lines and your compiled JavaScript will only contain that individual function rather than many megabytes of unused code.


Our documents are broken into lots of smaller components we call sections. So, in a billeted lost, each list item is its own section.

Sections have a GUID and can be modified without touching any of the other parts of the document. This is useful in that it minimizes most common merge conflicts - they only happen of people edit the same sentence or spreadsheet cell while offline, but simultaneous edits of the same doc generally don't result in the need for any merge algorithm.

For offline edits of the same section, we use a fairly standard three way merge algorithm. Then, we show the edits we chose in the left hand side of the doc with the conversation along with a "Revert" button so you (the end user) can revert if our algorithm was wrong.


In general, if the subject includes "science" in the name, it probably isn't actually science. Political, data, social, etc. No chemist needs to say they study "chemical science."


It's always surreal to read Hacker News threads about the stuff you make. Harsh, but realistic. Anyway, I am Bret Taylor, co-founder of Quip. I am here if you have any questions, etc. (Also posted responses on the existing thread already).

Just to clarify a couple of points I have read:

1. We do support desktops. We have a really nice web app. It is Chrome/Firefox only right now.

2. We have an Android app. It is a "preview release" because it is not feature complete. We released it because it is pretty close, and you can download it at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quip.quip. It is early, but it exists.


Why do you need to manage my [Google] contacts for me to signup? A plain email + password signup alternative would be nice!

Tried to opt out of the contacts sharing, but I got stuck in an infinite loop and couldn't find a signup option without the Google oAuth.

The product itself looks awesome, but I can't try it out because I don't want to give away access to my entire Google account.


App looks great Bret. One question - given the focus on collaboration and mobility and the very minimal formatting feature set, why the positioning as a word processor rather than a OneNote/Wiki/Collab note taking tool?


I had the same thinking. I think Microsoft OneNote is the example to follow in mobile. Microsoft had tried to port it to mobile devices but that is not the real desktop OneNote.

Back in the iPhone 2g era I was developing a personal wiki with a WYSIWYG UI but I stopped because I needed to use a lot of hidden UITextView/WebView object methods that were not approved by Apple policies or write my own editor engine. Many years later I don't see this kind of wiki in the App Store (no, it's not EverNote).


> (no, it's not EverNote).

Amen! I've run desktop wikis, Evernote, OneNote, plain text files, Markdown files, Workflowy, Delicious, Diigo and more, and not fit exactly. Evernote is so easy to dump things into (esp web page clippings) and oh-so-hard to find/retrieve information. I've come to the conclusion tags don't cut it, as vocab I used 4+ years ago may have changed by now - heck even terms I used 3 weeks ago change as my knowledge improves.

A wiki with structure, like the Leo Literate Programming Editor used IIRC has come closest. But the space of PIM is ripe for a killer product that takes semi-structured data and allows us to run with it.

Filemaker for the web, with a bit more flexibility.


Been trying this out today to collaboratively write a blog entry - it's worked very well. I absolutely love the diff view in the conversation pane, it's exactly how I want document diffs to work.

A couple of things:

1. I really want an "export to HTML" option. As it is, I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to turn my blog entry in to HTML I can publish some where - I guess I'll have to copy and paste the whole thing out again and re-apply the formatting.

2. There's no way to send you feedback through the app! I replied here because at least then it will show up in your Hacker News threads.


How would you convince a happy google docs user to switch, what's the key selling point?


1. Works exceptionally on mobile.

2. Works offline. Whether spotty 3G connection or completely offline, our mobile apps work and sync whenever you come back online, even when multiple people are collaborating on the same document. The tech behind this is really cool. And everything is available offline automatically, not just stuff you "mark for offline"

3. Diffs, presence, notifications

More details at https://quip.com/about/features


I think you should clarify your message a little bit because Google Drive works well in mobile (and offline), too, especially since they started giving away Quick Office to augment their "normal" Drive app. Additionally, most of your features are available in Drive/Docs, but sometimes just executed differently (like diffs, presence and notifications). I can absolutely see a value in the Quip way of doing things, but not for a large enterprise with high volume and complex documents, not to mention the common use case of taking a native binary doc of some sort and uploading+converting to Drive format. The SMB use cases you use as examples are spot-on, but don't mesh with my needs as an administrator of a 20,000 person domain with 800,000 documents online. I also wouldn't pay $12/user/month for Quip when I could get all of the rest of Google Apps for only $50ish.

Another question I'd have is what your long term plan is. The last thing I need for my business (of any size) is to select a vendor for a productivity tool and have it disappear due to acquisition, pivot, or bankruptcy in a couple/few years. (Coincidentally, I just saw the HN post announcing this: https://catch.com/)

Speaking of diffs, here's a FR that would probably be easy for you to implement, and one that a lot of Google Enterprise customers have been complaining about for years. It's possible to view and revert to previous revisions of Google Docs no problem (although the UI isn't particularly nice), but it's not possible to freeze versions of a doc. The method most people seem to go about this currently is to save a copy of the frozen version to docx/pdf and place it in the same folder as the working copy, but this is incredibly annoying.

Regarding commenting and collaborating on docs, one of the really nice features Drive has that you might consider adopting is their method of handling comment threads, and the integration with email (they all @mentions, too, using the +username syntax, btw).


While I can see why you would attack Google Docs, I think there may be an even bigger play here.

Abstracting Document types and building tools to make the creation of each type more rich.

See more details in my other comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6132528


The offline feature is a winning point. I can't understand why Google et al act like if we were always connected. No, Mount Everest doesn't have WiFi...

Commercially, you must take defensive measures since Google acquired QuickOffice in 2012 and surely will attack this market space more aggresively.


Doesn't Google docs have these too? They do for me. It works great on my iPad (GDocs, I can see people's changes, it has notifications (comments).


You didn't answer the question. You were asked what features would make a Google Doc user switch, and instead of naming those you went full PR and named the features (at least two out of three) Google Docs have.

This kind of dishonesty and bullshit will stain your image. Please don't treat us like morons.


Bret - product question for you.

The Quip blog goes to great lengths to explain why the PC is going away, and phones/tablets are the future. I agree.

Why put support into a web app vs. native apps? I get the platform argument, but that also comes at the "general" expense of user experience. Given the early stage, that seems like a division of resources.

Curious how you came to the decision to support broadly vs. platform focused.


Downvote?


Brett, I'm certain that as cynical, harsh and snarky some comments here might appear, most do mean well. It's a twisted form of constructive criticism to say the least, especially on HN. Some look at the details, others the overall implementation, a few will complain and some aren't even sure of what they're seeing. But I think the most important takeaway from this thread is that you have a pretty good collection of items to explore. I think a founder engaging a community of critical early-adopters is one of the best ways to polish the initial edges and perfect your product for wide adoption. There's always something to add to the feature-set.

Note: It's difficult to see from your site that you also have a desktop version (support). This might be as important as the mobile version for those of us who don't create on our iPads and would rather review on tablet.


Hi, Bret, Quip looks good. As a tech blog editor, I think Quip is a great place to review essays with my colleagues, we can exchange our opinions in real-time.

For now I only have one question——does Quip have any plan to support Markdown?


I've played with it for 5 minutes on the Desktop and I like it, but so far I've got two questions:

1. There are links in "Introduction to Quip", but I can't see how I would insert a link myself. Not being able to do that would be kind of a deal breaker.

2. I also can't see how to revert a document to an earlier state, which given Quips wiki-like features is pretty crucial.


Not Really FF/Cr Only.

http://snag.gy/SzUHK.jpg http://snag.gy/cTUOA.jpg

(Tested on IE11 preview on win7. I dont have earlier versions.)


I'm impressed so far. Is there any chance you could send me the current beta APK file to test on my BlackBerry PlayBook? Web application works alright, but selecting text to style doesn't work :(

Yeah yeah I know, obscure device and all that. :P


There are some weird bugs while using CJK IMEs. It affects Chrome and IE11. It may be caused by wrongly processing key stroke events which is modified by IMEs.


I just checked it out and really like it. My primary use case would be a tool to replace or augment a wiki.

What types of feedback are you most interested in receiving?


Any and all


Is there a reason the app is not available on the UK app store?

Also, I'd second the recommendation to allow normal signup and put off decisions about trusting the website with contacts. I wanted to sign up while not giving the app access, but was not allowed to go ahead and do that because any emails associated with gmail etc tried to harvest contacts, and the cancel button on the google permissions page doesn't work. Doesn't seem to be a way to register a gmail address without going through the permissions step.

If I want to expose my contacts, I'd rather the app allowed me to choose when and who to do that with, rather than trying to force the choice at signup. I'm happy to give you my email, but not those of all my contacts.


The app is available in the UK store, but Apple's search indices may not have been updated. Try buying it using the direct iTunes link on Quip's website, instead of searching the UK store.


That's strange, I tried it earlier using the link on the website which took me to itunes, and it was listed as not available in my store, but perhaps they fixed the link (might have been a link to the US app) or it was a cache issue as you say. Seems to work now.


I can get it on the UK store no problem.


Someone else may have mentioned it, but it's really annoying not to be able to do a regular signup through gmail. I don't trust anyone to manage my contacts I'm afraid. Perhaps make those components optional, but just use them for auth?


Am I going to be able to download editable documents for use in other word processors? Or am I limited to just PDF?


I think the first thing that comes to mind when you mention "word processing" is compatibility. Most of us in the real world depend on Microsoft Word - can you guys promise not to mangle doc/docx files as soon as we open it or save edits from Quip? :)


Your attitude is what makes Microsoft so prone to mangle their own doc/docx files in ways only they can understand.

By doing that, they can prevent you and everyone else from using any competing product, including this one.

I will say it again: if your document breaks it is not the fault of Quip or whatever, it is a feature of using Microsoft formats, and Microsoft revenue comes from that feature.


I could not possibly care less. I choose software based on what works (insofar as it is a tool, and that is the foremost metric by which it is just judged), and part of working involves being compatible with the rest of the documents I handle, the vast majority of which are not produced by me (or my software choices.)

If you want to compete with Word, make it righteous and compatible, and I will purchase a copy immediately.

However, given the choice between the moral high ground or a text editor that does what I need it to do (including compatibility), I will choose the latter every last time.


You still won't be able to print that last minute contract/grant/whatever from your high horse.

You not distributing closed formats (that's why i don't use M$ office, apple products or buy sony weird media that came out every now and then) is the right thing

You preventing yourself from accessing those formats are not harming them, just yourself.


Well, I'd rather get my shit done smoothly with my co-authors rather than take a principled stand and all that. Most in the academia do not wanna change their authoring tools, especially if they are 50+. And all of this is driven by one thing: most of the conferences and journals in our field want Word submissions. I don't have the hallow effect to change that. So we'd rather everybody dance to Microsoft's tune than the other way around.


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