Using llm’s for papers does not mean your brain is atrophying though. There are lots of ways to challenge the mind even if you use llm’s to write some papers.
Sure. And there are new pedagogies that educators are trying out that help people learn even in the presence of these tools.
But a huge amount of "ugh I'm too smart for this assignment" complaining that students do is just kids being immature rather than an honest attempt at learning through other means.
> Using llm’s for papers does not mean your brain is atrophying though.
It means that you are losing your time. If you are a university student and use LLMs for your classes while "challenging your mind" for stuff outside of class, maybe you should just not be studying there in the first place.
Yes, I too enjoy that universities never send students to pointless filler courses. I really enjoyed writing long essays about ethics in software engineering for people who'd barely even read them. I especially benefited from being told that "tell your boss, tell HR, then make a police report and quit if that didn't fix it" is not an appropriate response to being asked to break the law at work.
While we're talking about things we're grateful for, I am so glad that we've structured the education and employment systems such that not having a degree puts you at significant risk of unemployment, prevents you from ever immigrating anywhere for the first decade of your working life, and generally marks you as a failure.
Do you...not understand that the class on ethics in software development was completely pointless because it was neutered by a university administration that was too afraid to commit to any real ethical position?
I thought I was pretty clear when I told you I got marked down for taking the stance that one should not commit crimes when asked to by one's boss.
The problem isn't that I was asked to produce an essay as part of the process of teaching me about ethics. The problem is that the entire class was pointless busywork taught by lecturers who weren't particularly ethical and who failed to teach any of us about ethics. ChatGPT could have done the entire thing and the class would still have failed to leave me with anything other than lingering resentment.
> Using llm’s for papers does not mean your brain is atrophying though. There are lots of ways to challenge the mind even if you use llm’s to write some papers.
Writing is hard. Sometimes it means sitting with yourself, for hours, without any progress. Leaning on an LLM to ease through those tough moments is 100% short circuiting the learning process.
To your point, maybe you're learning something else instead, like when/how to prompt an LLM or something. But you're definitely not learning how to write. Whether that's relevant is a separate discussion.
Lately I've been saying often the phrase "the process is the product." When you outsource the process, then the product will be fundamentally different from what you would have delivered on your own. In my own case of knowledge work, the value of the reports I write is not in the report itself (nobody ever reads them...) but rather the thinking that went into them and the hard-won wisdom and knowledge we created in our heads.
> Leaning on an LLM to ease through those tough moments is 100% short circuiting the learning process.
Sounds like "back in my days" type of complaining. Do you have any evidence of this "100% reduction" or is it just "AI bad" bandwagoning?
> But you're definitely not learning how to write.
How would you know? You've never tested him. You're making a far-reaching assumption about someone's learning based on using an aid. It's the equivalent of saying "you're definitely not learning how to ride a bicycle if you use training wheels".
If they use LLM for writing papers, they probably use it for other things as well. I have seen so many instances of adult actually skipping the step of "whys" and "whats" and go straight to "ask the LLM and we trim backwards".
Its basically adults producing texts of slop messages to each other. It is actually atrophying.
You might be in a circle of people that wants to know "why" things work. For example, when there's a bug, we go through several processes of:
There's a bug...why does it happen? What were they thinking when they wrote this? How to prevent this from happening?
This is true even for simple bugs, but nowadays you just vibe code your away into the solution, asking the AI to fix it over and over without ever understanding how it works.
Perhaps its just the way things are. I mean who uses their head to do calculations nowadays? Who knows how to create a blurring effect in physical drawing?
If you used a wheelchair every day, your legs would atrophy.
Regardless of the existence of other ways to exercise your legs which you also will not do, because you're a person with working legs who chooses to use a wheelchair.
You’re describing an extreme so let me counter with a different “what if” extreme: If
, every day, you use a wheel chair for five minutes and run for several hours followed by 200 squats then your legs will not atrophy. My point is that writing papers is only one way to work your mind and using llm’s for this does not indicate how you use your mind overall.
Well since we’re in a thread about talking to dolphins:
The problem with virtue signaling is that it’s parroting virtue for social praise. This parrot-like, repeater-node behavior often attempts to move the conversation to virtue talking points and away from the specific topic.
To be clear, this is just about online virtue signaling. It’s just as silly in the physical world - certain attire, gestures, tribal obedience, etc.
The leftist coddling crusades are just a different form of dominance over minorities. It absolutely is bigotry and sense of superiority driving it. That said, it would take one incredible therapist to get them to realize it.
The most mind numbing thing from that side are when leftists act confused that a minority or woman didn’t vote their way.
I’ve never seen greater confusion in my life from otherwise well adjusted people.
“Self interest” is the go to term. “They’re [an amorphous group all in a single socioeconomic bracket] voting against their self interest”.
the form of dominance is very apparent but it seems like that crowd is completely blind to it, they're saying “here are the prepackaged things your kind can vote for, leave fiscal foreign and monetary policy to the white man. it is impossible for you to be in a position where those matters are relevant to you and may have you evaluating parties based on those factors. stick with the availability of elective surgeries like we said”
The left in the US manifests as the Democrat party, that party will be better off when they realize their constituents don’t really like them and are not that liberal. They're just more cautious of some people on the right.
> if an AI is left to strictly decide what is best to happen to humans it will logically conclude that there needs to be a lot less of us or none of us left
That may or may not be its logical conclusion. You’re speculating based on your own opinions that this is logical.
If I were to guess, it would be indifferent about us and care more about proliferating into the universe than about earth. The AI should understand how insignificant earth is relative to the scale of the universe or even the Milky Way galaxy.
Well, there's less money in it now, since production and consumption of whatever you think you want to see or hear is easier and cheaper than ever. So there will be less attempting. QED, I suppose.
Does it though? We are all constrained by the time cost of everything we do. Not everybody with a quick creative spark cares enough to sacrifice opportunities, dedicate time, skip sleep or whatever it may take to gain the skills needed to act on the creative spark. AI empowering the output is a beautiful thing.
> People are robbing themselves of the joy that can only come from putting yourself through hardship in pursuit of a goal.
This is such an old man “I used to walk uphill both ways” take.
Not everybody has the TIME COST to pursue being an expert in art or code or whatever. But if they have an amazing idea and can now use AI to produce the idea then that is a beautiful thing!
For example: Having an idea for a cartoon used to be a dead end. It would die in your head because most people cannot stop their life and dedicate a substantial amount of time, effort, and sacrifice to produce the single cartoon idea.
>Having an idea for a cartoon used to be a dead end.
What's the point in having an idea for a cartoon in your head if an LLM can just write an infinite amount of cartoon ideas in a heartbeat, and probably a better one than you came up with.
Because it's your own? And previously that creativity of yours was hamstrung by your lack of ability in another domain (drawing), that the AI can help you with.
>> Having an idea for a cartoon used to be a dead end
But drawning a cartoon isn't very challenging. Most of my peers could draw someone from South Park in a junior school.
The hardship in making cartoons is the amount of choices you need to make and the amount of knowledge how those choices would impact a viewer.
If you delegate all of that, the cartoon wouldn't be simply blunt, it would be self-contradicting. And we already had a way of making cartoons, that allow your writing to shine through bland animation – since flash, actually. It might actually be even faster then using generative AI
I agree. Toil itself is not valuable or noble. We, as a society, should work towards reducing the training, skill level, and manual effort needed to achieve things. There is no need to artificially gatekeep activities behind needless toil.
This kind of mentality would ban Star Trek replicators, should they be invented one day. "In my day, you had to actually make things, we didn't get to replicate them, so we shouldn't, even if it's possible!"
I disagree re toil. The original idea that brings a creative work into existence is only a tiny part of how that work evolves with every step. For example absolutely no writer starts off writing their final draft. They write & through writing their ideas are clarified & new ideas form, that they did not previously have, all due to the 'toil' of writing the previous drafts. Skipping all the steps that are required to create significant work leads to shallow work born from instant gratification, exactly like the Ghibli slop. It's not 'gatekeeping' that something requires time & effort. All that Ghibli slop is already forgotten, despite saturating social media only a few days ago, because it so shallow. The story & characters & intent is what gives Ghibli films meaning & human resonance.
People want to express their creativity stuck in their head without having the skill or training (privilege of the training) to be a legit artist. I think it’s awesome that this removes the barrier and empowers people to be creative in ways that they previously could not.
Your definition of creativity is flawed. Imagining something is a small part of the process. Developing the skill and technique to express that imagination is the most important part.
So if I have a great idea for a cartoon, but my life is filled to the brim and I can’t spend months or years to learn the craft, the idea should die in my head? All because of some idealist opinion?
Come on, you're a tech person aren't you? Maybe a programmer? How many times have you had an idea guy come to you with a "great idea for an app" if only they could find someone to program it for them?
Sorry, but most ideas aren't great. It's the painful process of refinement, hard work, and iteration that results in something great.
> How many times have you had an idea guy come to you with a "great idea for an app" if only they could find someone to program it for them?
Many. And I love it when those people code something up with Scratch, Matlab, or even Excel. Even though I personally would dislike the aesthetics of the result, I’m much happier to see other people enjoying computers the same way I enjoy them (i.e., by using them to solve interesting problems) than if I insisted everyone do so using my preferred “real” programming languages.
This is ableism. A big part of this 'democratization' is that people unable to develop the skill and techniques can now express that imagination. There are physical, mental and financial impediments. They may never be a traditional craftsman, but they can certainly be artists (and not just conceptual artists).
