Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | elevaet's commentslogin

What about the old gym adage "training to failure is failing to train" - is there any physiological basis for this, or is it mental, or just a myth?


That’s a Pl/Oly mindset rather than a BB/hypertrophy mindset. Totally valid advice in the right context.

Long story short, failed reps get much more risky and problematic as the weight you’re lifting approaches your 1RM.


Exactly this. When I was in my best shape my deadlift and squat were in/on the way to 2.5-3x my body weight. You don’t want to fail that without a lot of help and safeties.

Note for the uninitiated: That figure is not even impressive or competitive with competition lifters. This is just “guy who put in the time and work” numbers.


Don’t sell yourself short though. Those are very respectable numbers ahead of the vast majority of the population.


Yeah, for sure. It is in line with someone who went to the gym 4-5 times per week and had a coach/trainer. Just hard work and help from an expert.

Look up lifts and weight multiples and a 3x weight deadlift is advanced to elite.

https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift/lb


Yeah I was doing fine for the usual people going to the gym. I’d be last in a competition. I’m neither on steroids or an elite natural athlete. My point isn’t to say I’m weak, only that I’m not unusual for someone who went to the gym 5x per week and had a personal trainer/coach.

Be sure to not take strengthlevel.com too seriously.


It holds true, but with some caveats.

Generally training to failure is completely fine for say a set of tricep extensions. Generally safe.

However, training to failure on compound lifts like a deadlift or benchpress, or involving sensitive muscles like a shoulder press, isn't.

Technique generally suffers at the point of failure. Making a habit of doing thousands of repetitions in the next decade at the point where technique fails, on an exercise that can mess up your back permanently, or your shoulders, is bad advice.

For these exercises it's better to stop 2 reps short of failure. This is more safe. Also it requires moderate recovery getting you back in the gym quicker, meaning you can compound more incremental improvements in a given training period (say 5 years).

Even then, some still cautiously go to failure to keep an understanding of what their failure point really is. You could go for a PR once or twice a month for example and go to failure, with a proper warmup, spotter etc. But purely for hypertrophy there's not really a point, this is more for strength training.

Generally people that say they train to failure mean 2 reps in reserve. Training to absolute failure on all muscles is very rare and generally advised against.


True. Generally, the more isolated the exercise and the smaller the muscle the "safer" it is to train-to-failure at a higher duty-cycle.

Put another way, you can do crunches to failure every single day, but you'll want to keep some reps in the tank for squats and you'll want to plan on at least 12-24 hours of recovery between squat sessions.


not an expert, 2 years of serious lifting, but this is probably a good adage for the average person from my current understanding

training to failure puts you at higher risk of injury and there are diminishing returns as you approach your 1 rep max and/or failure

hypertrophy can happen with more reps or more weight

strength gains are usually just focused on progressive overload

though, of course, hypertrophy will happen either way and contributes to increased strength, but this seems to be further confirmation that you can gain muscle size either way


It's definitely way more nuanced than that. You have to approach exhaustion to get the body to eventually build strength. But you need to carefully time your rests/deloads and handle plateaus with more volume.


i definitely agree it is more nuanced! might not have communicated it well that in the context of untrained people and beginners that these guidelines will work for quite a while and most of the nuance applies much more once you get past the easy beginner gains

for example, if someone new starts with low weight to work on proper technique and form, and adds weight each week they will continue to both get stronger and to gain muscle

i'd imagine the average person who is casually lifting might not even get to this point and could easily spend a couple of years before really hitting a spot where the nuance is more important


Where could I find more information on proper set timing?


I like Mehdi's description over here as a good starting point:

https://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5/intermediate/#rest-p...

Has a paper from 1976 but this seems in line with what I've read elsewhere

basically, 2-3 minutes is probably good for most of your lifting, you could go to 5 minutes if you are doing your heaviest lift of the day

this is also a reasonable way to make sure your workouts aren't going to take 3 hours at a time

some people really mix max this though if they're focusing on super heavy lifts. i remember being at the gym and watching people take 8-10 minutes between sets when they were putting up 400-500lbs on a squat. they also arrived before me and weren't done when i was leaving and, i'm assuming, they were interested in powerlifting competitions

i've actually started looking at reactive training system with mike tuchscherer who has a lot of interesting things to say about training, rest times, etc. been startin to build his stuff on RPE and fatigue percentages in to my training and it has already been super insightful and helpful

https://store.reactivetrainingsystems.com/blogs/default-blog...


This guy has a PhD in exercise science and is a very evidence based dude and breaks things down very nicely.

https://youtu.be/DupQfkoI-Sc?si=QK_w2d99TcvNcQsD


Honestly from a personal training/lifting coach. When I could spend serious time in the gym there’s a lot to just having someone with expertise for 30 minutes to give perspective. You can do a lot of it over video today as well.

In general YouTube is a good resource. There are a lot of respected coaches that also produce content.


It ends up being personal, but you want enough time to catch your breath and be “ready” to go again, but no more.


I’ve never heard that, it’s usually the opposite- people do strip sets and the like to reach failure


Failure also taxes your nervous system and joints which don’t take as kindly to stimulus as muscles do and take longer to recover (or accumulate damage in case of joints)


Are there any great variable and open serif web fonts around?


I am very fond of Merriweather (which I recently saw on a list of over-used fonts, for those who believe that you should use a different obscure and, hopefully, hard to read font in every document). It pairs nicely with Merriweather Sans, Cascadia Code, and for math Libertinus Modern, though I do have to tweak ex-heights to match.


I don't really like serif fonts, but the two that immediately come to mind are Noto Serif and IBM Plex Serif. Both are open source. I know Noto Serif is variable, but not sure about IBM Plex.


Both Plex variants are really wonderful fonts


Lots! Start with the Google Fonts browser. This link should take you directly to a variable + serif list, and from there you can drill down into sub-styles, focus more on those with more axis, more styles, etc.: https://fonts.google.com/?categoryFilters=Technology:%2FTech...


Inter is pretty great.


Another risk is just loosing your keys.

I bet it happens a lot more than people like to talk about.


They keep pushing back the date of the LUCA - I think it's meant to be 4.2 billion years ago now, a time when Mars was more nurturing than it is now, maybe moreso than Earth at the time? I hope we find out it started on Mars and jumped to Earth, how cool would that be?


With my own kids what has worked is setting aside time, before bed where they _have to read_. It can be anything they want, they pick books from library most of the time.

The risk of this approach might be that it could suck the fun out of it making it a chore, but that has not been the case - they both like to read books now.

Creating that space for reading has been essential. It's impossible to compete against all of the other things otherwise.


Indeed. When I was young I had a mandatory bedtime that was slightly before I got tired, and not having many alternatives I ended up using it for reading. I suppose these days electronics would have to stay outside the room for it to work.


This is the way. My son (10) went from actively trying to do anything else while he was supposed to be reading, to actually settling down and reading continuously for at least 30 minutes every night. We've had the rule since he was 6, but it seems like in the last year he has flipped from not being that interested to now highly valuing it and being upset if something impinges on his reading time... which of course we will extend bed time a bit to ensure he gets his reading time.


Sometimes vibes includes things we're trying to get away from like stereotyping visible groups of people.


You're right. Of course i'm not rejecting "data" or "analysis" entirely, what im pushing back against is the (very common) thing that happens in companies where you get into a situation of "who you going to trust? the data or your own lying eyes" kind of thing


Yeah I agree with you. I think it's a good approach to check vibes against data and vice-versa, and not blindly trust one over the other - use one to look critically at the other. They both have defects.


Interesting your mind went there.


Sudden failure in a big battery like these is usually due to a single cell failing, which can usually be replaced and then the battery pack is back to the 70% capacity or whatever. Probably in this context of scale it's worth doing the work of replacing bad cells.


Nobody is out there opening packs and replacing single cells, a battery pack is usually composed of multiple modules and each module can have multiple arrays of cells in series. You shutoff the whole array of cells around the cell that failed and the battery keeps working fine at reduced capacity.

If it happens multiple times in the same module you replace a whole module of cells. The packs can usually be disassembled and parts replaced, but the modules are usually soldered down to prevent/mitigate thermal runaway.

Also you can't mix cells of different chemistry or capacity together in the same module. So really if one fails in a module you replace the whole module. Or, in their case, just keep the module there disconnected until the whole battery fails then you scrap the whole battery pack. I assume it is not worth it for them to do any kind of replacements.


Best enjoyed with Boards of Canada


@errorzero - if you have the time would you be able to give more information on the Scales? This section is very interesting.


Hey, the scales are just an array of numbers like this

    ['Darkness', [0, 1, 3]],
    ['Darkness2', [0, 1]],
    ['Single', [3]],
    ['Locrian', [0, 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10]],
    ['Aeolian', [0, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10]],
    ['Mixolydian', [0, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10]],
    ...
A scale is randomly selected at the start and then notes are randomly selected from that scale in the pattern generation, plus the root note number is added to each one.

So if you had the 'Darkness' scale selected and had the root dropdown set to 0, the notes in this scale would be C, C#, D# which is 0, 1, 3 if you count the keys on a keyboard. If you changed the root to 2, then it would become D, D#, F (2, 3, 5).

Hope that makes sense.


That does make sense, thanks! Very simple and effective.


This is fantastic errozero nicely done! It's very musical, the drone is a nice touch and really glues it all together in a subtle way.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: