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Almost certainly. The law should also be amended to require conviction or settlement, not merely investigation, to revoke someone’s PreCheck or Global Entry status.

Overall you can have Global Entry revoked for almost anything; one of the clauses is “The applicant has been found in violation of any customs, immigration, or agriculture regulations, procedures, or laws in any country.” which falls dramatically short of a crime or investigation. There are many reports of GE revocation for stuff like failure to declare fruits at checkpoints.

How is attending a protest a potential violation of customs regulations? This doesn't track.

> How is attending a protest a potential violation of customs regulations?

FTFA: “Protesting isn’t a listed or ‘valid’ reason for having Global Entry revoked, but being arrested at a protest is. Impeding or interfering with the agency is. And being investigated is.”


Looks like this is a social credit system.

Global Entry absolutely is a completely voluntary social credit system? It’s an optional thing you literally subscribe to that says “I’m squeaky clean so I can skip the investigation line.”

right, but as the post above says:

> “Protesting isn’t a listed or ‘valid’ reason for having Global Entry revoked, but being arrested at a protest is… And being investigated is.”

its no secret they're declaring everything a protest. they are actively and seemingly randomly roaming, demanding ids, and then declaring everything from that moment forward a protest. this isnt imaginary, its happening regularly.

it’s no secret how many people they have arrested and released an hour or two later once they’re "investigated."

it’s also no secret that they’re simply arresting people, who arent at a protest, but who happen to be in the same street they’ve roamed to.

if they roam into my neighborhood, and if i were to be outside walking my dog, they demand my id which i probably wouldnt have because im just walking my dog. so they arrest me. hours later let me go because they’ve "investigated" and oops, just a neighbor out walking his dog..

if they've declared it a protest, this would mean i would have just been arrested and investigated at what they call a protest.

so now in this situation i would barred from global entry because they’ve declared everyone in their eyeline worthy of arrest and then wrongly arrested and investigated me?

what a cluster fuck. we need to get due process back, this is insanity.

not to mention that protesting, just like legally carrying a firearm is absolutely protected by the constitution and not at all a criminal offense. getting arrested at a protest because they dont like protesters is absolutely not a reliable indicator of any kind of illegality.


> Global Entry absolutely is a completely voluntary social credit system?

They’re making analogy to China’s social-credit system. It would be like if Global Entry was held by most Americans and you needed it to get a credit card or board a train.


> Looks like this is a social credit system

To the extent it’s a government program with any discretion, yes. In every other respect, no.


The argument, if there is one, would probably be that following ICE was a violation of an immigration procedure (note that the person who had their GE revoked doesn’t claim they attended a protest, but rather that they were following ICE and got their picture taken). Given what I’ve seen of GE revocations historically, though, it’s equally likely to have been something like “you lived with a felon” or “unpaid traffic ticket became a warrant” or “family member was accused but never convicted of an obscure crime.”

There’s always been a pretty clear mantra that GE is a privilege not a right and that it’s always been an arbitrary and capricious system.

In some ways I think maintaining GE is probably as hard or harder than maintaining a low level (ie Secret) security clearance; it seems to be based on similar databases and discretion with less transparency, human touch, or opportunity to appeal.

They are at least (according to the 9th circuit) supposed to disclose why the GE was revoked though: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2024/05/22/2...


Expressing your first amendment right to protest is not “almost anything.” Historically, courts have taken very dim view of government retaliation for first-amendment protected activities.

It's trivial for the state to punish you and nearly impossible to assert your own rights. It is a very hard legal battle to get those rights acknowledged and upheld by the courts.

> nearly impossible to assert your own rights. It is a very hard legal battle to get those rights acknowledged and upheld by the courts

What are you basing this on? This administration is constantly losing in court.


They lose but ignore that they have lost, just keep going, the courts aren't shutting them down very effectively.

They mean it’s costly - in time and money - so in practice random individuals who are abused by the government can’t defend their rights and simply have to accept losing them.

Plus even if the administration loses, why would they care? They aren’t going to jail for those losses.


> They mean it’s costly

Which is far from “nearly impossible.”

> even if the administration loses, why would they care? They aren’t going to jail

Neither is someone whose TSA PreCheck is revoked.


Yes, but even so doing it because of protest is a restraint on speech, and that's expressly prohibited by the constitution.

The first amendment may be frustratingly silent on fruit trade regulations, but it's 100% not unclear about abridging the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Heck, you can be on a terrorism watchlist and entirely barred from flying without a conviction

Trusted Traveller programs are a privilege and not a constitutionally protected entitlement. They can be revoked at any time for any reason and you don't get your money back. What law are you talking about? Show us where in the Constitution it says you're entitled to cut in line at the airport.

We're now in the Find Out phase of "Let's fuck around with DHS and see if they take us off their club's VIP list".


This is textbook retaliation. Your statement is akin to a manager firing their underling after their romantic advances are rejected, and quoting at-will employment laws. Sure, you can be fired for "any" reason - except retaliation - that is illegal.

"Congress shall make no law". If there is a law, it's unconstitutional. If there is no law, then how is the executive doing it? By what constitutional authority?

Personally, I don’t think that anyone should be speaking authoritatively on this subject because it seems to me to be untested constitutional law, unless a constitutional scholar would like to chime in.

In which case, it’s up to the Supreme Court to either explicitly (through judgment) or implicitly (through denying a hearing of the case) decide.


Ok, I am a Constitutional Scholar and there is no way that not getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action” because you can simply get in line. In general, there need to be damages when you talk about liability.

Welcome to the thread! I trust your expertise, but am a little put off by your flippant tone:

> getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action”

This is rhetorical device of framing. I could just as easily say:

> Pretending to open an online cupcake shop and pretending to be forced to serve gay people isn’t a “material adverse action”

And it would sound equally ridiculous, yet the highest court in the land ruled in that individual’s favor.


> This is rhetorical device of framing

Is MAC a thing outside mergers?


> am a little put off by your flippant tone

I love this. You:

1. Declare everyone stop talking until an actual expert can speak and educate us all

2. An Actual Expert™ enters the chat and offers his expert opinion.

3. You decide his opinion is bullshit after all, because it disagrees with what you had in mind, and accuse him of being flippant.


Ha. I love this comment.

It's bad for all of us if there are privilege government entitlements. I disagree with the word privilege because anyone who hasn't been arrested seems to be able to get these things. I don't have one and haven't applied either, I should be able to get it I guess, at least before the fascists came to power.

There are also no consequences for the president, his agency leaders, legislators, or anyone else involved in this when they violate the constitution. At best, the victims sue and get money from taxpayers. The law must be changed to remove all types of qualified immunity from anyone in a government position.

> that whole not using facial recognition and deleting the data after use wasn't real

What are you referring to?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2025/05/20/tsa-fa...

"According to the TSA, your information is generally deleted shortly after you pass the screening process and is not used for surveillance purposes."


You submit permanent biometrics as part of PreCheck and Global Entry. DHS is presumably using those data for identification.

Is DHS’s usage against the stated purpose of the biometrics collection? Was there even a stated purpose?

The stated purpose for biometrics and photos with PreCheck and Global Entry is to identify you, so it’s not likely against its stated purpose to use it for identification, per-se.

Now using it to target protesters? Meh.


Consider the information can be used for more than just identifying you... if you have sufficient quality biometrics they can be used to _impersonate_ you, including "fingering" you for things you didn't do. Police forces have "planted" evidence for decades now, biometrics can be just another thing that can be planted. The problem is, you can't fight it, because it's absolutely unique to you (with some extreme exceptions).

This is one of _many_ reasons why biometrics need to be a personal civil liberty. The individual must have the right to say "no" to _any_ "requirement" for giving up biometric data, unless they are convicted as a criminal (IMO). Because once you deliver that information, you _cannot_ trust any other party _to actually do what they say will do and destroy said data_, and that's not even considering just poor storage of said data.

Once your biometrics are in a database, you're fucked *for life* because it's completely unrealistic to have it destroyed with absolute certainty. This needs to be a *global human right*, as hard as those are to come by still.


I don’t disagree. What will (and is) actually happening is every government everywhere is rushing to get these systems setup ASAP.

But it's still awful. It doesn't matter at this moment that other governments may be doing this. We don't want that for us (and I don't want it for others either).

Ok, but clearly they don’t care?


Identify you when though? Important question I guess

The US has been using ICE a lot.

Guess who is doing the identifying - CBP and ICE. Guess who runs borders and immigration, which is the use case for PreCheck and Global Entry?

Guess what the stated jurisdictional limits are for CBP? 100 miles from any possible border [https://legalclarity.org/immigration-map-of-us-jurisdictiona...].

Guess who has essentially unlimited jurisdictional limits? ICE.

So they can pretend they are ‘checking for immigration status’ using the existing photos and biometrics, while simultaneously gathering information on who is at what protest.

Then the info gets shared once gathered - with or without plausible deniability - and blam. Bobs your uncle.


> Guess what the stated jurisdictional limits are for CBP? 100 miles from any possible border

To quote a prominent US historian:

  In a constitutional regime, such as ours, the law applies everywhere and at all times. In a republic, such as ours, it applies to everyone. For that logic of law to be undone, the aspiring tyrant looks for openings, for cracks to pry open.

  One of these is the border. The country stops at the border. And so the law stops at the border. And so for the tyrant an obvious move is to extend the border so that is everywhere, to turn the whole country as a border area, where no rules apply.

  Stalin did this with border zones and deportations in the 1930s that preceded the Great Terror. Hitler did it with immigration raids in 1938 that targeted undocumented Jews and forced them across the border.
* https://snyder.substack.com/p/lies-and-lawlessness

> Guess who runs borders and immigration, which is the use case for PreCheck and Global Entry?

Not ICE?

> Guess who has essentially unlimited jurisdictional limits? ICE.

ICE thinks that. The courts are disagreeing.


First question - CBP, as noted.

Unlimited jurisdictional limits - and the courts will enforce this with whose army? As it were.

ICE isn’t allowed to act on citizens either, and yet here we are.


> ICE isn’t allowed to act on citizens

By law or policy?


It’s not legal to deport U.S. citizens but they have anyway. A judge in Minnesota has said that ICE has violated around 100 court orders. We are living in a personalist dictatorship. The courts are ignored when their rulings are inconvenient.

This doesn’t even remotely address the question.

Not who you are responding too, but I tried to look up the legal justifications behind ICE and it’s a mess. Good luck untangling it!

For sure, just sharing why someone might think they delete the data!

> not sure why so many people believe that what - jury nullification? - is going to happen

Eh, if I thought Mangione was justified or effective it would be an easy way to feel good for a while with zero real-world consequences apart from my moral integrity. (Which, to be clear, is mine and mine alone. I have friends–good people whom I love and respect–who would nullify Mangione. They're just never getting seated on his jury without perjuring themselves.)


> and the district court disagreed

Which, once Mangione is convicted, will almost certainly be reviewed at the appellate level.


I don't have any experience in Article III criminal litigation but normally that wouldn't be possible.

The appellate court cannot review something that isn't before it, and a conviction on other offenses does not bring counts 3 and 4 of the indictment before the appellate court.

Normally, I would expect there to be a process for an interlocutory appeal when a ruling is fatal to a charged offense. However, again, I'm not familiar enough with title 28 to say if that is in fact the case here.


> How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically?

Who doesn't perjor themselves during voir dire, thereby triggering a mistrial? Pretty confident. Maybe he gets lucky in federal court because Bondi is an idiot. But the state charges are solid, and New York isn't Reddit.


I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know.

Laws are just loose rules we sometimes collectively adhere to, people are mostly emotion driven. Sometimes the law matters, but sometimes not.


> I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know

I’ll take it! If he’s found not guilty on all counts in his state and federal trials, I owe you.

> people are mostly emotion driven

Sure. A prosecutor’s (and judge’s) job is to remove these people from a jury pool.


> Why should either of them get the death penalty?

Pardons. If he's pardoned there is a good chance he'll kill again. (And inspire copycats.)

We need to eliminate pardons across our system of justice. Between Biden pardoning his son and Trump pardoning the J6'ers, there should be a bipartisan case for closing this.


Why would he need to be pardoned to inspire copycats? Why wouldn’t his death cause him to become a martyr and inspire others?

Why would he be pardoned by the governor at all? Why do you believe Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned, when the reasoning (accurately) was to protect him from a perversion of the law in turn?

Your entire argument is essentially “kill them before they can prove they’re not still a threat”.


or…if we’re at the point we need to neuter the power of the elected office,

just randomly appoint people, and stop pretending what we’re doing is working.


> if we’re at the point we need to neuter the power of the elected office

Eliminating pardon power doesn’t neuter the Presidency or Governorships. The Romans didn’t even automatically grant the power to dictators.


“begin neutering”, then.

Not arguing for the pardon power - just demanding better leadership.


Source?

PBS News Hour, Question and response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPK41OPq6VY

Such confidence. Even some brazen lies about following court orders sprinkled on top.


It's the kind of confidence that would normally lead to a jail term.

Fucking a...

> THAT guy would definitely get the death penalty

If they did it in a federal court? Probably. If they did it in the state court? Probably not. New York doesn’t have the death penalty.


> No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice

Which makes Trump's repeated claims that he was elected in 2020 doubly stupid.


> He’s going to walk

If you actually believe this you can more than 10x your money [1].

[1] https://polymarket.com/event/luigi-mangione-out-of-custody-b...


Prediction markets are notoriously unreliable from a resolution perspective.

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