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Hm. Yes, it actually does. It's just a nice way of putting it.


This is not accurate. Getting fired versus laid-off are different; it's important to understand this. For one, if you're communicating with a professional and express that you were fired, they will make much different assumptions than if you were laid-off. Second, the distinction can affect your eligibility for employment insurance (or 'unemployment').


Fired - removed from your position "for cause" - can be performance, breaking company policy etc.

Laid off - company's business situation has changed and does not require your services anymore - no fault of yours.


My impression is that there is a legal issue in calling something a layoff, in that the position has to have been eliminated.


I believe you don't qualify for unemployment insurance if you are fired, as opposed to laid off.


Yeah that's the basic difference, but I believe there's also something accounting-ish or tax-y about it, too.


I've literally never heard anyone make that distinction.


It's a pretty important distinction as it can decide whether you qualify for unemployment or not.



Agreed. If they were smart, they would break themselves up as Alphabet did in preparation for future investigations etc.

They could then acquire companies more "quietly".

Mark should also take a page from Larry's book and transition to the background more while lettings someone else run Facebook.


I don't think Facebook is able to get away with that, at least not as easily.

With Google my #1 concern is they'll shut it down. With Facebook I know it's going to sniff up all my data it can get its grubby hands on (which is also the #2 concern with Google if the product survives)

In any case on the subject I don't want anything but my own hardware processing anything thought related. That is not something the cloud should be involved in


Congratulations to the Stripe team. Truly great product and company. The fact that WeWork truly thought that they were $12B more valuable than Stripe is insane to me.


What are your thoughts on Formula 1?


Formula 1 uses safety equipment, no?


Why do you think it's right for you to tell someone what to do with their property?


So you think that nothing should be done about it at all? It definitely seems like there should be a plan to at least assess the situation.


Just want to say that the amount of hate Elon gets on HN is really interesting.


Yes, you would expect that someone from tech revolutionizing an entire industry at global scale would get a little bit more respect and appreciation here.


> you would expect that someone from tech revolutionizing an entire industry at global scale would get a little bit more respect and appreciation here.

I'm not one of the people negatively commenting but I personally think one's character is significantly more important than ones accomplishments and he doesn't really seem like a good person.

I admire that he is trying to do something about global warming. Nevertheless he seems like he's let his fame (or lack of sleep..) get to his head and I strongly disagree with the marketing of autopilot.

I understand why people would admire him though. He's done some amazing things and consistently.


Why he doesn't seem like a good person to you?


Emailing a Buzzfeed reporter that someone is a pedo who isn’t? Telling the police that a whistleblower was planning a mass shooting attack at Tesla HQ? Marketing autopilot as anything more than a driver assist system when misuse of the system has now killed at least 4 people?


Or indeed his views on unions which will hurt exactly the sort of people who frequent hacker news, and his terrible treatment of his staff.


His (public) behavior is not that of someone I'd look up to.

As others have said, his accusing of someone to be pedophile is very low. I strongly disagree with the marketing and, in my humble opinion, reckless release of Autopilot.

I also really don't like how he handled the issue with the SEC. Whether he intended to or not, he did misled investors with his tweets about having funding secured and instead of just admitting he made a mistake acted like he could do no wrong. He's actually surprisingly similar to Trump in his inability to take criticism with grace.

Again, I don't think he's an evil person but my impression is that he's let his wealth and fame get to his head. I can't say I blame him, people idolize him like he's the second coming of Jesus. I'm sure that kind of admiration isn't healthy for anyone and I am sure it'd mess me up too.

He's very much like a real life Tony Stark, and I suppose a part of me resents that he has so much admiration. It has nothing to do with him but I hate the idea that people seem to place success above everything else, when that's really not what should be important and I'd argue that emphasis on success probably leads to a lot of unhappiness in modern society. But I digress.


Fair enough. To me, considering all the shit and negativity he has been hearing from so many people on a daily basis for over a decade, he doing only these things you listed I consider him a saint. I’d have done a lot worse and I consider myself a very good person.

What I like the most about the guy is that he shows that he’s pretty much a human like anyone else.


I respect the engineers and workers actually doing the revolutionizing, not the man taking all the credit and the money.


Can you provide any documentation of this being the case? Because here is Tom Mueller, Co-founder of SpaceX and designer of initial Merlin rocket engine saying that is not the case.

https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560


I definitely respect them too, but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious?


>but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious?

It would be just as correct to say that Elon Musk's vision wouldn't go anywhere without his employees' vision and talents, many of which likely exceed his own in terms of technical or intellectual skill.

Obviously, he has his place, and credit where credit is due, but I think we've gotten a bit too obsessed with the cult of personality and "great man" model of thinking that creeps into history, business and science.


But he made it happen (commented before you edited yours).

People are hating on Tesla because they don’t like Elon. A company that will literally benefit everyone, directly or indirectly.

It’s a human flaw, it seems.


No, he paid people to make it happen, who made it happen. He doesn't deserve more credit than his employees.


Nobody is saying he deserves more than the employees. You brought them to the conversation. He deserves a lot of credit, that’s all.


Except remember when he slept in the factor for a month straight and worked harder and longer than everybody?

No one has put more blood sweat and tears into Tesla than Musk.


In what way is it interesting? It's not uncommon in the various Facebook and Google threads for commenters to make this same complaint.


[flagged]


How is "Elon Musk brought up pedophilia epidemic in thailand" at all an accurate description of Elon Musk calling a cave diver a pedophile just because he was an expat in Thailand? There may be people who go overboard on the Elon hate, but this just seems like the opposite bias.


And he doubled down in that email to the Buzzfeed reporter and implied that he had proof for those bogus claims. He’s being sued for that.


> The "thailand crowd" for lack of a better word upset Elon Musk brought up pedophilia epidemic in thailand.

You mean that time he accused a child-saving hero of having sex with children? I guess that's one way of putting it.


Couldn't agree more.


No idea if there is correlation but something is definitely not being discussed.


Source?


That's probably the most reasonable interpretation of their disengagement report for 2016 and 2017. Still speculation, though.

Hundreds of disengagements, all in a few days in October 2016.

Consistent with multiple attempts of filming their self driving promo.

No disengagements apart from that in 2 years.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/f1873c87-4f21-4beb...


This is one of the stronger conclusions by, of all things, $TSLAQ Twitter. The conclusion is derived from the fact that Elon's plane made two very recent visits to D.C., that none of the actual salespeople were prepared, and that there is precedent of companies under investigation to pre-comply with DoJ requests to drastically reduce charges under settlement.

Most of these $TSLAQ people are, of course, short-sellers, so take it with a fair bit of salt.


Especially wrt the DoJ claim. What does the Department of Justice have to do with anything?


> What does the Department of Justice have to do with anything?

While I haven't heard anything about the DoJ related to the self-driving feature, how they might be involved is pretty obvious:

The DoJ prosecutes federal crimes, including, reportedly, a recent criminal referral from the SEC.

While the trigger for that was Musk's tweets, federal criminal investigations aren't narrowly restricted to the conduct which triggered them; Tesla has made representations, regarding the self-driving feature to investors as well as consumers; to the extent those representations did not fully accurately represent Tesla’s knowledge, and materially impacts Telsa’s expected costs and outlook, that's a potentially criminal securities fraud.


Himself?


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