There's still good deals in mini PC land. Yes, the M4 is faster but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU.
I bought one of these once. The specs on paper look good, but the CPUs are weak. They’re like those U series Intel CPUs where you could get say an i7-7700U, with 4 physical cores and 8 total threads, but at 15W TDP you were never really going to benefit from the 4 cores and 8 threads.
I do love those particular boxes for certain workloads. I have a few Lenovo ThinkCenter small form factor boxes in my office. They’ve replaced all my Rapsberry Pis. Unlike the Pi, I was able to purchase these!
Yeah the Pi is way too expensive. NUCs are a better deal (and roughly the same price), and x86 is obviously going to smoke ARM in certain workloads (e.g. running a VPN server that has to encrypt/decrypt all traffic).
The concept of the Raspberry Pi is great, but the price point was never where it needed to be. Even when you could get one for around MSRP, doing anything with it was so much added cost. Yeah $35 for a little computer is great, but you needed a power supply, case, microSD card, and whatever hats (the hats have always been overpriced IMO).
I know a couple of iOS developers who recently switched to a M4 MacBook pro and they swear that in some frequent workloads it feels sluggish and slower than the old Intel MacBook pros. Being RAM-starved might have something to do with it though.
> but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600.
I also add that, unlike Apple hardware, these miniPCs are built with extensibility in mind. For example, most NUCs from the likes of minisforum and Beelink ship with a single SSD but support multiple SSDs, with their cases also having room for SATA drives. They even go as far as selling barebones versions of their NUCs, where customers can then pick and choose which RAM and SSDs to add.
From my experience, TCO on most apple products ends up being roughly the same when you factor in resale value.
You'll be able to sell your M4 mac mini in 5 years for $150 for an instant-cash offer from backmarket or any other reseller, while you'd be lucky to get $30 for the equivalent Beelink or BOSGAME after 6 months on ebay.
> From my experience, TCO on most apple products ends up being roughly the same when you factor in resale value.
This reads like the epitome of Apple's reality distortion field. I mean, you're trying to convince yourself that a product is not overpriced when compared to equivalent products and subjecting customers to price gauging by asserting that you might be able to sell it later. That's quite the logical leap.
No that's an accurate TCO calculation.
It's interesting that on this topic, the inventor of the PC also seems to be caught in that supposed "Apple reality distortion field" and can't confirm the "price gouging" that you're trying to convince yourself Apple practices.
I’m curious about your definition of the word waste. If a $600 Mac lasts 5 years and still worth $150 and another machine loses all its value in six months, how is Mac a waste?
600-150 is a bigger number than 30 last time I checked. So even if the $30 machine were to loose all its remaining value instantly, not even scrap metal, you would be far, far ahead.
These are the dollar numbers claimed in the above post.
I do think we should at least use the same measure of time to compare. Even if that means one reaches $0 by the time the other reaches $150.
Macs do generally hold their resell value better than PCs, but that doesn’t necessarily have any correlation to usefulness.
I have bought several ThinkCenter small form factor PCs used for about $200 each, and they’ve each been about 5-7 years old. They’re perfectly fine and I can even get new parts from Lenovo, depending on the part and machine. Fantastic deal. They run loads of services in my home.
> You'll be able to sell your M4 mac mini in 5 years for $150 for an instant-cash offer from backmarket or any other reseller
If you want to put in a bit of elbow grease, you can get a much better deal. M1 Mac Minis in my area are regularly selling for $350+ on FB Marketplace right now.
I just checked out backmarket as I've been shopping for a mini PC with oculink and hadn't thought of them. They have a primary nav across the top of the site which has 5 generic categories (laptops, consoles etc.), one Google product (pixel), 4 Samsung items, and 20 Apple items - more than all the others put together. I guess this very much proves your point.
No need for a black market, there's plenty of public ones (Backmarket, eBay, etc.). That being said $200 seems not terrible given the step change in performance since then (I own a 2019 MBP and think we were very unlucky with our purchase timing). Backmarket seems to sell yours for ~$350-500, so maybe you'll get a little bit more trade-in for it.
I owned a 2014 MBP (~$1200?) for a long time and as late as 2019 it was resellable for $500.
> I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU
Why exactly?
What are a "lot of people" storing on their computers these days? Photos are in the cloud or on our phones. Videos and music are streaming. Documents take up no space. Programs are in the cloud (for the most part).
None of them have a proper HDMI 2.1 FRL port that is needed to run a 4k 120Hz monitor. Likely because the Iris Xe / AMD equivalent does not support it, and dedicated ITX GPUs are expensive. This isn't a problem with M4.
I would second this! The N100 is super efficient., and can often be found for around $150. I can also recommend looking at used intel “NUC” mini PCs if you’re budget conscience. I have a couple of 5th gen i5 NUCs i got for $60 that that run multiple VMs and LXC containers as part of a Proxmox cluster.
Another valid option is a synology nas, not only can you build the storage you probably want (I have 12TB 1 redundancy with one slot spare, read backed by ssd) but can also run containers on em as well.
Not sure what the best to recomend, what I can say is to stay away from GIGABYTE .
I got a BRIX, which gave me nothing but trouble. Its UEFI is very picky with SSD brands, wasted money on a couple now being used as external drives, and in the end not even with Windows.
It is now collecting dust waiting for the city hall disposal round.
It starts €599,00 for 2(!) core Celeron. Seems absurd when you can get a Mini for an extra €100 (you can run Linux/Windows in a VM and still get a magnitude or few better perf). Or even an used old NUC or something, you'd need to go back very far to get a crappier CPU...
So the actual starting price seems to be €900-1000 (i.e. if you want an i5..)
The Celeron G6900 has a 46W TDP and seems to be around ~20% (multicore) slower than the <10W N100. Seems absurd that they are pushing garbage like that at such prices (even if its the base config)
Cirrus7 is expensive because you are paying for a very high quality machined chassis & case that act as a massive fanless heatsink. Those alone are pretty costly. The price cannot be compared with cheap NUC clones and mini PCs, nor with Apple.
I am not endorsing any particular brand, but Cirrus7 is not that expensive within the fanless market and the quality of the entire build is very high. They also somtimes offer nice discounts for students and SMEs. There are quite a few comparable brands and also DIY options with cases from Streacom or Akasa. If you want something cheaper, Minix is pretty inexpensive, especially when you take into consideration they offer a decent fanless enclosure.
The higher end configs seem fine even if a bit pricy (still, though the Mac Mini seems like great value if you're fine with the OS situation and non upgradable memory).
I still find it weird/confusing why would a reasonably high-end brand be selling configs with such horrible CPUs (especially perf/watt considering the whole fanless thing).
But I suppose they hardly have any options if they want a socketed MB. Laptop chips would probably be a lot better value (both cost and heat wise) but then it's no longer modular and e.g. Lunar Lake doesn't(?) even support non soldered-memory...
That is a good question. They sell those CPUs to industrial clients. Note cases can be configured to be completely sealed for high-dust environments, and it is also possible to get industrial motherboards with connections that no regular user needs. The fanless market has a pretty good niche in factory deployments. There, lots of software is designed to run 24/7 on cheap CPUs.
Mac Minis, and in general most Apple products, tend to offer great value in the lowest configuration. But upgrades are expensive. It is a bit of the opposite situation. I have not used Macs for very long, and I prefer Linux, yet the cheapest Mini looks quite appealing. When Intel Core 2 CPUs entered the laptop market, it was a similar situation. The cheapest MacBooks offered really great value compared to competition.
Install your favorite flavor of Linux then. Beelink devices have a good reputation for being quite happy with a new OS. It's more compatible that the latest Apple devices, that's for certain.
Apple has never put any technical or legal obstacles in the way of installing other operating systems on Mac hardware. Nor do they assist in any way, it's consistent benign neglect.
The old Intel machines made excellent Linux boxes, excepting the TouchBar era because the TouchBar sucked (it was possible to install Linux, it would display the fake function keys, they worked, but not a good experience). I've converted two non-TouchBar Mac laptops into Linux machines, with zero complaints, one of them is in current use (not the laptop I'm typing on this instant however).
Now there's Asahi, which as a sibling comment points out, will surely be supported for M4 eventually. This is a great time to buy the M2 Minis and put Linux on them, if that's what you're into. Or you can wait around for the M4 port, whatever suits your needs.
Yet they made BootCamp.
Do you see how foolish you look trying to defend nonsense?
Apple try to avoid being too heavy handed in the lockdown because they know the outrage it would cause from their legacy customers. Boil the frog slowly.
But they most definitely are trying to make the Mac more like an iPhone and they would rather not you install any other OS on it.
The bootloader not being completely locked is more for legacy reasons and multi-macOS support (dev/debug) but if you have any problem with it, you will need (surprise-surprise), another Mac for a DFU restore, just like an iPhone.
I have a minisforum minipc. first thing I did was wipe windows and put popos on it. super happy with it. That said, getting anyone who isn't used to linux to usd anything other than windows as easy as pulling your teeth. People go towards whats familiar; Even when what's familiar is objectively trash that spies on you.
I don't try to get others to use Linux anymore. "Anyone who isn't used to Linux" can keep doing whatever it is they're already doing. So long as we can use it, I'm happy. I care about Linux usage only as far as it makes it harder for companies to ignore or block us.
https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emul... https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphic...